bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Mar 12, 2014 18:22:17 GMT
Received a mail from AC - if you haven't lent anything thru AC during the last 30 days then you qualify for a cashback incentive. Sorry AC - I just do not agree with this. Same shoddy practise used by numerous financial institutions that actively disadvantage their loyal customers. Simply not good enough in my book - you've slipped up big time.  |
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Post by whitmanthecat on Mar 12, 2014 19:01:59 GMT
I'm a new member on these boards and only investing through AC for the past month.
I also received this email and get the feeling it probably wasn't meant to go to everyone, given the picture and the content. It will wind up those actively investing to see an offer to which we cannot benefit.
I can see why it has been done though. There is a significant amount of underwriters' funds tied up in the two bridging loans on the aftermarket, with a fair bit more to come soon (hopefully) when other recent loans are drawn down. If currently active members are only nibbling away at it, AC will benefit from getting a few idle members back to eat it up a bit quicker and free up funds for new loans.
I have also received an email about the lender panel due to the amount I have put in. The extra headstart on the aftermarket doesn't seem that worthwhile because of how much is going to come onto the aftermarket, but the concept also seems to support the fact that AC want to help underwriters offload their committments.
To put it into context, the cashback on £10k to £100k is roughly two weeks interest on an active loan, so not unsubstantial. A bit more gutting is that I have bid funds against the live auctions, to 'do the right thing' knowing there could be time before drawdown, when someone who has been away for a while could pile into the aftermarket and start investing straight away with a nice bonus on top.
At least it is offered to some semi-loyal customers who probably have loaned money already, as opposed to new sign-ups.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Mar 12, 2014 19:35:03 GMT
I'm a new member on these boards and only investing through AC for the past month. I also received this email and get the feeling it probably wasn't meant to go to everyone, given the picture and the content. It will wind up those actively investing to see an offer to which we cannot benefit. I can see why it has been done though. There is a significant amount of underwriters' funds tied up in the two bridging loans on the aftermarket, with a fair bit more to come soon (hopefully) when other recent loans are drawn down. If currently active members are only nibbling away at it, AC will benefit from getting a few idle members back to eat it up a bit quicker and free up funds for new loans. I have also received an email about the lender panel due to the amount I have put in. The extra headstart on the aftermarket doesn't seem that worthwhile because of how much is going to come onto the aftermarket, but the concept also seems to support the fact that AC want to help underwriters offload their committments. To put it into context, the cashback on £10k to £100k is roughly two weeks interest on an active loan, so not unsubstantial. A bit more gutting is that I have bid funds against the live auctions, to 'do the right thing' knowing there could be time before drawdown, when someone who has been away for a while could pile into the aftermarket and start investing straight away with a nice bonus on top. At least it is offered to some semi-loyal customers who probably have loaned money already, as opposed to new sign-ups. Sorry but it's the broad principle that gets to me. I'll stand firm and believe it is shoddy - not something I would have expected from AC. I have loans waiting for the dreaded drawdown delays and also have nipped into the aftermarket recently. Do I qualify? - not interested either way my opinion remains the same.
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Post by westcountryfunder on Mar 12, 2014 19:35:20 GMT
I didn't receive the email personally - possibly because I have invested monies in the past 30 days? Whilst I can understand the need for incentives to attract new business, such practice is blatant discrimination, which imo, should be labeled as being the same and curtailed under the blanket of equal opportunities legislation. There are more equitable ways of attracting funding from across the board. Nor did I get this email presumably because I have invested a smidgeon recently in the secondary market, while waiting at least until the last moment for current offers. However, not sure what to say about the principle behind this. It seems to be the way or the world, whether you are talking about teaser offers on building society accounts or the annual hassle of changing your motor insurer nearly every year, they're all at it. Not sure that I totally share bugs4me's view on this, but it is irritating. Now that we all know about it perhaps we can all wait for a month hoping to receive the same inducement. On the other hand it is not in our interests to undermine AC's money raising efforts.
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j
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Post by j on Mar 12, 2014 19:36:28 GMT
Received a mail from AC - if you haven't lent anything thru AC during the last 30 days then you qualify for a cashback incentive. Sorry AC - I just do not agree with this. Same shoddy practise used by numerous financial institutions that actively disadvantage their loyal customers. Simply not good enough in my book - you've slipped up big time. any chance you could copy & paste the email & pm to me as I didn't receive it. Thanks I've got to sat I'm hugely disappointed. Having effectively shunned all other p2p platforms to invest solely with AC with siginificant part on the basis that they seemed to conduct themselves more openly & ethically. If I counted the collective number of weeks I had funds unreasonably tied up before draw down over the last number of months, I have easily lost some 12 months' worth of interest, and instead of rewarding that loyalty, it's new entrants who seem to be offered incentives. Surely that incentive could have been offered to everybody if they invest above a certain figure as cash back, be they new or old members?! Reality might necessitate action on AC's part to reduce reliance on underwriters, but they seem to have mismanaged this one? Would be good to hear from Andrew!
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Post by mrclondon on Mar 12, 2014 20:26:04 GMT
I agree with the general sentiments expressed that cashback for lenders who have missed the action for the last month doesn't seem the most equitable option. However, I suspect that most in that category will be smaller players who are unlikely to make much of a dent in the AM underwriters hangover even if they take up the offer. This (and the lenders panel email that I did receive) seem to be tackling the symptom (AM hangover) rather than the cause (reluctance of lenders to bid on larger loans on the primary market, which is being discussed currently on the Aberystwyth thread).
Doesn't seem to have been well thought through.
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j
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Post by j on Mar 12, 2014 21:02:11 GMT
This makes me angry. I've lent tens of thousands since Xmas and not received a single £ of cash-back on any deals. I experienced some serious dead time by bidding in auctions rather than waiting for the secondary market. I was planning to increase my exposure to AC loans but why should I if I am not eligible for this deal. Also this does smack of desperation. The clear problem is that they simply don't have the retail lending base to take the underwriters out of their positions. The've done a bunch of large deals in recent months and now the underwriters are getting a serious case of indigestion. I've rung them to try to understand how they expect to be able to rotate the underwriters out of their positions quickly when they don't have a large enough capacity in their retail lending base. I don't think they know. Instead they asked if I wanted to become an underwriter (!) and I told them I did not want to risk ending up with £100k+ in a single deal. They need to develop a retail investor base with more mid sized investors who will put £1k to £20k in each deal (more like TC) and reduce their dependence on underwriting. What about something more effective like offering cashback in auctions to retail investors to encourage early bidding (underwriting-lite)? Whilst it's only fair to give Andrew & AC time to reply as this issue has just come to light, it does seem that they have scored a serious own goal on this occasion. I know I won't invest anymore until I get some answers. I simply cannot fathom why they did this secretly rather than consult much more of their member base. Even with the 'larger' loans, they would stand a better chance of filling by offering cash back rather than underwriting on the scale they have been doing. Small & mid-sized lenders as a collective will surely be incentivised to commit funds earlier rather than wait for units on AM which can earn immediately. Add to that larger lenders & most likely a lot of the funding issues would be nearer to resolution?! The more you lend, the more cash back you earn, fair on everyone within their means. There's another p2p platform that has been doing cash back on various aspects of lending for a few months now & from what I hear they have had decent uptake on it. After all the effort AC has put over the last few months, especially via this discussion board, to build goodwill they have a lost a lot of that kudos now. What a shame 
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Post by batchoy on Mar 12, 2014 21:31:43 GMT
I have to say I have taken this latest cashback offer as a slap in the face to regular investors and reading the T&Cs it actively incentivises those lenders who are waiting until underwritten loans appear on the AM and penalizes those lenders who are prepared to take part in auctions and have their money held in limbo for the duration of the auction and draw down delays. It is an example of one of the worst aspects that affects the whole of the UK financial industry of valuing new business over loyalty. |
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Mar 12, 2014 21:47:23 GMT
I've got five figure resources planned and waiting to invest, and would love to get 0.5% cashback.
But I won't.
Why?
Because I have actively bought on the aftermarket in the last thirty days. Because I paid for the "very quick drawdown" Epping which is now a slow drawdown. I made a new bid on Aberystwyth (which tied up my money for many weeks last year).....I've got six accepted bids still waiting for drawdown....
If I hadn't bothered at all (following the huge drawdown delays on pre Christmas loans) and waited for it all to come up on the aftermarket I would qualify for 0.5% (can't make the 1% because there aren't enough options for the spreadability I want).
Hey, Assetz.... when can I have a silver banana please?
Don't know why this incentive mail was sent to people like me who automatically didn't qualify.
As for the other "reserve aftermarket" parts offer....I've already bought my £1000 in Hackney and Ipswich....so I won't qualify for reserving parts in Furniture, Wind, or Wrexham....hold on...I've already committed to those.
I'll go back to sleep then.
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j
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Post by j on Mar 12, 2014 21:50:12 GMT
I have to say I have taken this latest cashback offer as a slap in the face to regular investors and reading the T&Cs it actively incentivises those lenders who are waiting until underwritten loans appear on the AM and penalizes those lenders who are prepared to take part in auctions and have their money held in limbo for the duration of the auction and draw down delays. It is an example of one of the worst aspects that affects the whole of the UK financial industry of valuing new business over loyalty. A politely worded email that expresses my 'negative' sentiments has been sent to AC. If anyone feels the same way, I urge them to follow suite. It might make AC stop & think before becoming another FC!
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Post by bracknellboy on Mar 12, 2014 21:55:39 GMT
I'm not sure I can agree with all the -ve sentiment expressed around the offer. Not that I received it to be able to judge (presumably because I have lent in the last 30 days, or at least bid, and bought a bit on the SM, sorry AM).
A business has to decide how best i.e. the most efficient mechanism - to spend allocated money to achieve its goal. I'd suggest that to meet a short term funding need attempting to entice/drum up your dormant lender base is the first most cost effective tactic. Certainly a lot cheaper and a lot quicker than addressing a potential issue of not having a broad enough lender base: sorting that out is a much more costly problem with a longer lead time to fix.
I've already bid on Aber... - the place in Wales a couple - of days ago. I did so regardless of the fact that I knew there was now a strong risk that it wouldnt' fill, and that I could adopt a tactic of 'pick it up on the AM' if it did fill. But if we all do that, this loan might grind to a halt and not happen, and it may emphasise that the current AC model is a little bit broken. so I decided to throw my few coins in.
Do I feel 'cheated' that others may now bid and pick up cashback ? No. No more than if I go buy something and a week later find its on a 10% discount. A trifle annoying on a personal level, but not cheated: that's a market dynamics for you.
There are plenty on this forum who argued strongly a number of months ago that they don't want to have premiums on selling available on the aftermarket; some of those may also be of the view that they might as well hold out and pick up loans on the AM, (at of course no loss compared to original available rate: indeed a gain due to no 'lost opportunity' cost. Is it just possible that the latter is a little bit related to the former, and the AC model is forcing a greater dependance on underwriting or on cashback type incentives to substitute ?
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j
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Post by j on Mar 12, 2014 21:56:02 GMT
I've got five figure resources planned and waiting to invest, and would love to get 0.5% cashback. But I won't. Why? Because I have actively bought on the aftermarket in the last thirty days. Because I paid for the "very quick drawdown" Epping which is now a slow drawdown. I made a new bid on Aberystwyth (which tied up my money for many weeks last year).....I've got six accepted bids still waiting for drawdown.... If I hadn't bothered at all (following the huge drawdown delays on pre Christmas loans) and waited for it all to come up on the aftermarket I would qualify for 0.5% (can't make the 1% because there aren't enough options for the spreadability I want). Hey, Assetz.... when can I have a silver banana please? Don't know why this incentive mail was sent to people who automatically didn't qualify. As for the other "reserve aftermarket" parts offer....I've already bought my £1000 in Hackney and Ipswich....so I won't qualify for reserving parts in Furniture, Wind, or Wrexham....hold on...I've already committed to those. I'll go back to sleep then. Never mind a silver banana, there isn't even a tin one on offer!  As someone said earlier OG, it makes me angry. I invested a decent sum in the likes of Hackney recently (& many more before that) when live & lost the chance to utilise those funds in buying units on AM in the likes of L***s & S.Manc, which paid better rates as the funds were tied up waiting for drawdown, all for the sake of loyalty & helping reduce underwriting commissions for AC. It seems to have got us zilch reward or appreciation.
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Post by batchoy on Mar 12, 2014 22:00:54 GMT
As for the other "reserve aftermarket" parts offer....I've already bought my £1000 in Hackney and Ipswich....so I won't qualify for reserving parts in Furniture, Wind, or Wrexham....hold on...I've already committed to those. In the same boat, I bought all that I wanted to buy of all of those loans when they were originally auctioned (suffering the the auction and draw down delays that that entailed).
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j
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Penguins are very misunderstood!
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Post by j on Mar 12, 2014 22:02:19 GMT
I'm not sure I can agree with all the -ve sentiment expressed around the offer. Not that I received it to be able to judge (presumably because I have lent in the last 30 days, or at least bid, and bought a bit on the SM, sorry AM). A business has to decide how best i.e. the most efficient mechanism - to spend allocated money to achieve its goal. I'd suggest that to meet a short term funding need attempting to entice/drum up your dormant lender base is the first most cost effective tactic. Certainly a lot cheaper and a lot quicker than addressing a potential issue of not having a broad enough lender base: sorting that out is a much more costly problem with a longer lead time to fix. I've already bid on Aber... - the place in Wales a couple - of days ago. I did so regardless of the fact that I knew there was now a strong risk that it wouldnt' fill, and that I could adopt a tactic of 'pick it up on the AM' if it did fill. But if we all do that, this loan might grind to a halt and not happen, and it may emphasise that the current AC model is a little bit broken. so I decided to throw my few coins in. Do I feel 'cheated' that others may now bid and pick up cashback ? No. No more than if I go buy something and a week later find its on a 10% discount. A trifle annoying on a personal level, but not cheated: that's a market dynamics for you. There are plenty on this forum who argued strongly a number of months ago that they don't want to have premiums on selling available on the aftermarket; some of those may also be of the view that they might as well hold out and pick up loans on the AM, (at of course no loss compared to original available rate: indeed a gain due to no 'lost opportunity' cost. Is it just possible that the latter is a little bit related to the former, and the AC model is forcing a greater dependance on underwriting or on cashback type incentives to substitute ? BB, I totally get your point & I doubt many people here will dispute the logic of it. Take the A*** welsh loan. I don't know how much underwriting costs AC but, let's say I don't know 1% or even 0.5% on top of the rate offered, why not offer even half of that to all lenders on whatever they bid (big, mid & small) to encourage bidding whilst a loan is live. If the loan is 50% underwritten, I'm sure a large % of those who waited for units on AM will now bid with that small incentive. That way, a number of issues is resolved & everyone is happy or am I just being naive & looking through tinted glasses?
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Mar 12, 2014 22:08:03 GMT
...........At least it is offered to some semi-loyal customers who probably have loaned money already, as opposed to new sign-ups..... It doesn't say anywhere that new sign ups can't benefit.
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