oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Mar 29, 2016 12:26:25 GMT
Seems strange that having an existing loan with FK at sub 11% (for lenders), they couldn't negotiate a better deal for this, admittedly much larger loan than 13% (to lenders).
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 29, 2016 12:37:04 GMT
Seems strange that having an existing loan with FK at sub 11% (for lenders), they couldn't negotiate a better deal for this, admittedly much larger loan than 13% (to lenders). Different company from the same group. Guarentees for that loans appear to be from different comapanies in I assume the C****** group. Surprised at the lack of docs to support the loan, just a proposal & school contract, no financials, details of guarentees
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james
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Post by james on Mar 29, 2016 12:54:58 GMT
Seems strange that having an existing loan with FK at sub 11% (for lenders), they couldn't negotiate a better deal for this, admittedly much larger loan than 13% (to lenders). Different company from the same group. Guarentees for that loans appear to be from different comapanies in I assume the C****** group. Surprised at the lack of docs to support the loan, just a proposal & school contract, no financials, details of guarentees On reading the PDF files you'll find that the loan is secured on the building units valued at over a million Pounds. It would be good to have a clear statement about whether those buildings are being used s security for any other borrowing. It would be interesting to know where the money is going because the buildings are already apparently in place, barring one relatively low value one in progress. When it comes to the FK loan we also don't know how much margin FK was getting. It's always possible that Ablrate is offering a cheaper deal to the borrower and more money to lenders. No idea whether this is so, though.
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Investor
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Post by Investor on Mar 29, 2016 12:57:10 GMT
Debit Card functionality not working as below. Never had an issue before with transferring from this account to Ablrate Any ideas or has anything changed your end ablrateandy ? Error Occur during Transaction 3D Secure Error The credit card you have selected is not enrolled with 3-D Secure by your bank and the merchant has selected not to accept payment by this card..
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Post by ablrate on Mar 29, 2016 13:25:52 GMT
Debit Card functionality not working as below. Never had an issue before with transferring from this account to Ablrate Any ideas or has anything changed your end ablrateandy ? Error Occur during Transaction 3D Secure Error The credit card you have selected is not enrolled with 3-D Secure by your bank and the merchant has selected not to accept payment by this card.. Hi As part of a security review, we looked at the deposit system we use and instigated 3D Secure from Visa and Mastercard and we did it on a 'Fully Authenticated' basis. The result of this is that cards may be rejected if the bank or the card itself is not enrolled. The basic premise of the system is to protect users from someone other than the cardholder using the card and is widely used across the web to protect cardholders. I am sorry if its caused issues, but it maybe that a solution is to register the card (which should be prompted). If you are having further issues get hold of admin@ablrate and we will look into it. Regards Ablrate
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Post by meledor on Mar 29, 2016 13:43:30 GMT
It seems very strange there are no financials for what is purported to be a decently sized company "The Group has a head office, an operations office, 8 factories and over 100 acres of industrial land in East Yorkshire"
There is a worrying vagueness in the loan details. The header says the borrower is Cxxxxxx Ltd elsewhere it is something else (similar but different). There is a cross guarentee from the parent company which is stated in the loan proposal to be Cxxxxxx Group Ltd. There is no such company at Companies House. There is a Cxxxxxx Group Holdings Ltd whose consolidated accounts 'appear' to show some substance (with the emphasis on 'appear' as they do not make much sense - they are not consolidated accounts in any normal sense of the word). Unfortunately all the assets are in other subsidiaries such that the parent company assets are only £100 of investments in subs. In which case the parent company guarentee is not going to amount to much unless there are other cross guarentees from the companies with the assets.
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Post by meledor on Mar 29, 2016 13:55:41 GMT
Further it continues to be a source of frustration that where it is a new borrower like this one that Ablrate do not release all the details at least a few hours (even better a day) before launch. I am not thinking of any pledging system just the need to do DD without feeling under pressure because the loan is filling up. This has been mentioned before - other platforms do it why not Ablrate?
Another frustration has to be that you get logged out so quickly when you are trying to do some work on a new loan. Again something that has been mentioned before - promises made then nothing.
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Post by ablrate on Mar 29, 2016 14:35:52 GMT
It seems very strange there are no financials for what is purported to be a decently sized company "The Group has a head office, an operations office, 8 factories and over 100 acres of industrial land in East Yorkshire"
There is a worrying vagueness in the loan details. The header says its Cxxxxxx Ltd elsewhere it is something else (similar but different). There is a cross guarentee from the parent company which is stated in the loan proposal to be Cxxxxxx Group Ltd. There is no such company at Companies House. There is a Cxxxxxx Group Holdings Ltd whose consolidated accounts show some substance. Unfortunately all the assets are in other subsidiaries such that the parent company assets are only £100 of investments in subs. In which case the parent company guarentee is not going to amount to much unless there are other cross guarentees from the companies with the assets.
Thanks Meledor, an error on our part, the system picks up the user name which was inputted incorrectly... now change, thanks. I have changed within the notes to 'Cross guarantee from parent company'. We are formulating the closing docs, so rest assured that the guarantees will be solid and from a parent with the ability to back up the guarantee. This has all been agreed with the company and there would be no draw down unless these conditions were met to our complete satisfaction. Regards Ablrate
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Mar 29, 2016 14:51:06 GMT
Further it continues to be a source of frustration that where it is a new borrower like this one that Ablrate do not release all the details at least a few hours (even better a day) before launch. I am not thinking of any pledging system just the need to do DD without feeling under pressure because the loan is filling up. This has been mentioned before - other platforms do it why not Ablrate?
Another frustration has to be that you get logged out so quickly when you are trying to do some work on a new loan. Again something that has been mentioned before - promises made then nothing.
Agree, could do with some work ablrateandy ablrate
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Post by meledor on Mar 29, 2016 15:09:37 GMT
It seems very strange there are no financials for what is purported to be a decently sized company "The Group has a head office, an operations office, 8 factories and over 100 acres of industrial land in East Yorkshire"
There is a worrying vagueness in the loan details. The header says its Cxxxxxx Ltd elsewhere it is something else (similar but different). There is a cross guarentee from the parent company which is stated in the loan proposal to be Cxxxxxx Group Ltd. There is no such company at Companies House. There is a Cxxxxxx Group Holdings Ltd whose consolidated accounts show some substance. Unfortunately all the assets are in other subsidiaries such that the parent company assets are only £100 of investments in subs. In which case the parent company guarentee is not going to amount to much unless there are other cross guarentees from the companies with the assets.
Thanks Meledor, an error on our part, the system picks up the user name which was inputted incorrectly... now change, thanks. I have changed within the notes to 'Cross guarantee from parent company'. We are formulating the closing docs, so rest assured that the guarantees will be solid and from a parent with the ability to back up the guarantee. This has all been agreed with the company and there would be no draw down unless these conditions were met to our complete satisfaction. Regards Ablrate
From what I can see the one company in the group that appears to have the ability to back up the guarentee is the company which seems to have the properties - Fxxxxxxx Properties Ltd (F for the chairman/owner) rather than the parent.
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Investboy
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Trying to recover from P2P revolution
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Post by Investboy on Mar 29, 2016 16:00:15 GMT
How is it possible that those "buildings" are worth 1M and are rented for 1.2M a year?
You don't need a rocket scientist to figure out that it would be better for school just to buy it and then dump it, give away for free or sell for half-price "making" them 600k.
But those are "goverment money" so nobody cares I guess...
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Mar 29, 2016 16:06:05 GMT
How is it possible that those "buildings" are worth 1M and are rented for 1.2M a year? You don't need a rocket scientist to figure out that it would be better for school just to buy it and then dump it, give away for free or sell for half-price "making" them 600k. But those are "goverment money" so nobody cares I guess... The £1.2m contract is over 3 years I believe, although it does sound like a deal negotiated in a hurry by someone inexperienced and spending someone else's money! I guess a fair amount of cost / expertise / value lies in craning them in and out, which I assume the borrower is responsible for at the end. I was once involved with a school that briefly had to consider sourcing temporary classrooms; the cost (of second hand modular units) was essentially the same whether needed for 3 months or 12. The "value" of these units after 3 years is probably pretty notional unless you have the equipment and capability to remove them intact, refurbish them and then reinstall them somewhere else.
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Post by ablrate on Mar 29, 2016 16:34:20 GMT
How is it possible that those "buildings" are worth 1M and are rented for 1.2M a year? You don't need a rocket scientist to figure out that it would be better for school just to buy it and then dump it, give away for free or sell for half-price "making" them 600k. But those are "goverment money" so nobody cares I guess... The £1.2m contract is over 3 years I believe, although it does sound like a deal negotiated in a hurry by someone inexperienced and spending someone else's money! I guess a fair amount of cost / expertise / value lies in craning them in and out, which I assume the borrower is responsible for at the end. I was once involved with a school that briefly had to consider sourcing temporary classrooms; the cost (of second hand modular units) was essentially the same whether needed for 3 months or 12. The "value" of these units after 3 years is probably pretty notional unless you have the equipment and capability to remove them intact, refurbish them and then reinstall them somewhere else. Thanks for answering that stevet. The company involved does refurb units like this, so at the end of the term they would go back to the factory, be refurbed and be out on lease again somewhere else. Regards Ablrate
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Mar 29, 2016 16:42:25 GMT
Is this intended to be the first of a series of similar loans to this borrower for similar buildings or a one off?
Are those first charges on the various buildings and what is the size of the various other guarantees?
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Post by mongoose on Mar 29, 2016 19:03:08 GMT
The key for me is the security over the contract. Please could ABLRate confirm (I) that the charge over the contract is a first charge and (2) that the duration of the contract at least matches the duration of the loan?
I have tried to make this comment directly in the 'add comments' on the site but don't seem to be able to do so. It may just be me.
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