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Post by jabardolas on Apr 1, 2016 22:22:23 GMT
On bondora's blog in reply to one of my comment in the latest post about the recovery process, they shared an excel file where they calculate the improvement you get from using DCAs after only 7 days. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11hH4HGdBBrZm_nsnenJ6VUeAHAnY1uK5XOyYhqBzqgQ/edit#gid=704027990If you take a look you will realize that the "process improvement" is a input for their "analysis" and not as one would expect the result of it. The way I see it they either made this Excel in a hurry to show something to us although behind the scenes they made a real analysis. Or there is something seriously wrong and they simply want to send more loans to the DCAs, making some people a bit richer in the process. What do you guys think?
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Post by rahafoorum on Apr 3, 2016 13:00:02 GMT
I made a comment on this in Facebook group on 30. March with my thoughts. Even the clearly mathematical mistake is still there, so I guess correct figures aren't a priority or no-one has bothered to ask them to fix it.
Considering that they only made a very short "experiment" in January and we don't even know the scale of that, then I would be pretty surprised to find out that there actually was a proper analysis before they implemented the change. Especially since it seemed to come as a surprise that a loan can be more than once in the 7+ days overdue status.
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Post by rahafoorum on Feb 28, 2017 14:12:53 GMT
Been a while since this process was implemented and haven't seen any meaningful updates or analyses on the effect of DCA process. In addition, the 15% has increased to 35%.
Has anyone bothered to do any analyses on recovery rates or the effectiveness of this process?
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Post by rahafoorum on Mar 19, 2017 18:31:45 GMT
I guess it just happened and no-one knows why or how? It's only more than 100% increase on the fees...
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p2pmaster
investment is life.
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Post by p2pmaster on Mar 20, 2017 9:01:40 GMT
embarrassing question... investors are okay with higher fees as long as they see "promising" returns
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carlos
I'm short Bondora and long p2p.
Posts: 104
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Post by carlos on Mar 22, 2017 17:33:24 GMT
It is not coincidence that it is already more than year since evaluation of "first DCA batch" was promised to us and Bondora refuses to share any of the statistics.
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Post by rahafoorum on Mar 22, 2017 21:47:03 GMT
It is not coincidence that it is already more than year since evaluation of "first DCA batch" was promised to us and Bondora refuses to share any of the statistics. Actually you can see the statistics yourself now from their site from the cumulative recovery graph. DCA was first introduced for loans that defaulted in June 2015. Later on earlier defaults were also sent there, but you won't see a clear effect there since they were partly dealt with previous collection processes. Just in case, I've highlighted that time period with a red box, although it is pretty hard to miss. Ignore the last few months, since it's expected to be low there, but other than that, the pattern seems mighty clear. Source: www.bondora.com/en/public-statistics
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Post by Butch Cassidy on Mar 22, 2017 22:23:15 GMT
Don't forget that these results are not for just genuine defaults i.e. stopped paying altogether, but also include "late payers" who regularly paid but a just few days/weeks later than scheduled, so are actually much worse than they appear.
EDIT: 3 types of loan on my book 1. Genuine Default - no payments being made, 2. Late - behind but only recently & may recover , 3. Late regular payers - sporadic yet regular/reliable ongoing payments often for less than due or after due date
DCA's have been allowed to claim/been given type 3 so they now can deduct up to 50% of the income from these loans for effectively doing nothing. Not that I blame them; they are private firms aiming to maximise their own revenues. I think that the collapse in recovery rates should be laid at Bondora's door for actively deciding to issue loans to anyone & everyone in order to drive their own revenue volumes. This has resulted in type 1 massively increasing with little or no effective recovery - Slovakia had 90% default rates so no wonder investors lost money.
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kulerucket
Member of DD Central
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Post by kulerucket on Mar 22, 2017 23:00:26 GMT
If you hover over the bars on this graph on the Bondora site shows the totals only for loans that defaulted so I don't think collection from late payers are included.
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Post by rahafoorum on Mar 23, 2017 6:46:08 GMT
If you hover over the bars on this graph on the Bondora site shows the totals only for loans that defaulted so I don't think collection from late payers are included. I think that's what Butch is saying. This graph is only showing part of the DCA effect.
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kulerucket
Member of DD Central
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Post by kulerucket on Mar 23, 2017 7:42:54 GMT
They I see it is that if the DCA rate for non-default lones were included, then the graph would actually look better. This is because any loan that does not end up on this chart will have been successfully collected. Butch was saying that these were included in the graph making it look better but actually they are not included. In any case though, the difference would be quite small and the 5-15% rate still looks quite bad.
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carlos
I'm short Bondora and long p2p.
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Post by carlos on Mar 23, 2017 10:36:00 GMT
Actually you can see the statistics yourself now from their site from the cumulative recovery graph. DCA was first introduced for loans that defaulted in June 2015. Later on earlier defaults were also sent there, but you won't see a clear effect there since they were partly dealt with previous collection processes. Well that would mean that they resigned on collection altogether.. DCAs collected way less than previous in-house process. But I'd say that these numbers in the graph are irrelevant because we don't know what exact part was collection costs (I believe it includes it)..
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carlos
I'm short Bondora and long p2p.
Posts: 104
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Post by carlos on Mar 23, 2017 10:36:31 GMT
Don't forget that these results are not for just genuine defaults i.e. stopped paying altogether, but also include "late payers" who regularly paid but a just few days/weeks later than scheduled, so are actually much worse than they appear. Good point! This complicates it even more.
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carlos
I'm short Bondora and long p2p.
Posts: 104
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Post by carlos on Mar 23, 2017 10:39:13 GMT
If you hover over the bars on this graph on the Bondora site shows the totals only for loans that defaulted so I don't think collection from late payers are included. You are right.. it says "Cash flow generated from Loans in default" The problem is that we can't gauge our portfolio results because there is still not transparent accounting for DCA fees. I'd expect new database field for this, but that is clearly something Bondora doesn't want to show.
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JamesFrance
Member of DD Central
Port Grimaud 1974
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Post by JamesFrance on Mar 23, 2017 11:54:33 GMT
The new stats page is a joke. They seem to think that if they show enough meaningless and confusing graphs then nobody will realise that the profit figures they claim for you are accelerating downwards.
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