nick
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Post by nick on Apr 26, 2016 8:51:27 GMT
investUp, the aggregator p2p platform, claims that will soon launch a IFISA wrapper that will allow you to invest across a number of p2p platforms (currently 15) as an alternative of committing to a single platform (https://www.investup.co/crowdisa). I suspect it is only a matter of time that other aggregators will crop up and provide the same service. However, there is an extra layer of cost in using aggregator platforms (in investUp's case, 0.5% of funds on the platform).
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Post by ladywhitenap on Apr 26, 2016 9:06:05 GMT
Thanks for the replies. Very helpful as ever.
An aggregator fee of 0.5% is possibly at the upper end of standard ISA aggregator fees (HL 0.45%, Bestinvest 0.4%) but with the potential for much greater returns on P2P is arguably worth it.
I'm not a tax payer ( but soon will be thanks to P2P) so will possibly wait a while but Lord Whitenap is a 40% payer and could possibly be tempted by P2P within an IFISA wrapper but not if it meant all first year funds going to a single platform.
LW
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Post by goldservice on Apr 26, 2016 9:07:08 GMT
Yes, Hargreaves Landsdown were make a lot of noise about offering a multi platform IFISA six months ago but have since gone very quiet. I wouldn't use HL for anything. They gave me bad advice - over the phone so I found it impossible to seek compensation. So I emptied my HL account and tried to close it. HL then said there was a charge of £30 to close an account with them. So I had to then PAY THEM £30 in order to close my account. Middlemen - yuk!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2016 9:19:49 GMT
investUp, the aggregator p2p platform, claims that will soon launch a IFISA wrapper that will allow you to invest across a number of p2p platforms (currently 15) as an alternative of committing to a single platform (https://www.investup.co/crowdisa). I suspect it is only a matter of time that other aggregators will crop up and provide the same service. However, there is an extra layer of cost in using aggregator platforms (in investUp's case, 0.5% of funds on the platform). It is an interesting concept, even if I don't understand how they could possibly do it. a) the HRMC rules do not allow IFISA Investments with more than one provider per year. So I don't understand how they could possibly overcome this. b) Even assuming they get a FCA licence, still this does not allow them to resell ISA in smaller parts from multiple vendors. It looks a mistery to me
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Apr 26, 2016 9:35:11 GMT
investUp, the aggregator p2p platform, claims that will soon launch a IFISA wrapper that will allow you to invest across a number of p2p platforms (currently 15) as an alternative of committing to a single platform (https://www.investup.co/crowdisa). I suspect it is only a matter of time that other aggregators will crop up and provide the same service. However, there is an extra layer of cost in using aggregator platforms (in investUp's case, 0.5% of funds on the platform). It is an interesting concept, even if I don't understand how they could possibly do it. a) the HRMC rules do not allow IFISA Investments with more than one provider per year. So I don't understand how they could possibly overcome this. b) Even assuming they get a FCA licence, still this does not allow them to resell ISA in smaller parts from multiple vendors. It looks a mistery to me Investup would be the ISA manager/provider not the underlying platforms that provide the loans. They are not selling parts other platforms ISA but of their own ISA through which you can invest in loans on platforms. Same way as most S&S ISA providers are offering access to multiple funds from the people who actually manage the funds.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Apr 26, 2016 10:01:55 GMT
It is an interesting concept, even if I don't understand how they could possibly do it. a) the HRMC rules do not allow IFISA Investments with more than one provider per year. So I don't understand how they could possibly overcome this. b) Even assuming they get a FCA licence, still this does not allow them to resell ISA in smaller parts from multiple vendors. It looks a mistery to me Investup would be the ISA manager/provider not the underlying platforms that provide the loans. They are not selling parts other platforms ISA but of their own ISA through which you can invest in loans on platforms. Same way as most S&S ISA providers are offering access to multiple funds from the people who actually manage the funds. I strongly suspect some of the smaller P2P platforms will opt to point their lenders towards a "P2P Supermarket" like Investup rather than necessarily managing their own IFISAs (when/if they are authorised). I assume that Investup will still only be able to offer loans in their IFISA from platforms with full FCA authorisation.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2016 10:19:04 GMT
It is an interesting concept, even if I don't understand how they could possibly do it. a) the HRMC rules do not allow IFISA Investments with more than one provider per year. So I don't understand how they could possibly overcome this. b) Even assuming they get a FCA licence, still this does not allow them to resell ISA in smaller parts from multiple vendors. It looks a mistery to me Investup would be the ISA manager/provider not the underlying platforms that provide the loans. They are not selling parts other platforms ISA but of their own ISA through which you can invest in loans on platforms. Same way as most S&S ISA providers are offering access to multiple funds from the people who actually manage the funds. yes, but investup itself is tiny. They would need to make agreements as 'broker/reseller' with other platforms. I strongly doubt the likes of FC, RS, Zopa or even SS might have any advantage in using their services. So, for the user there would not be be in it...
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nick
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Post by nick on Apr 26, 2016 10:24:29 GMT
investUp, the aggregator p2p platform, claims that will soon launch a IFISA wrapper that will allow you to invest across a number of p2p platforms (currently 15) as an alternative of committing to a single platform (https://www.investup.co/crowdisa). I suspect it is only a matter of time that other aggregators will crop up and provide the same service. However, there is an extra layer of cost in using aggregator platforms (in investUp's case, 0.5% of funds on the platform). It is an interesting concept, even if I don't understand how they could possibly do it. a) the HRMC rules do not allow IFISA Investments with more than one provider per year. So I don't understand how they could possibly overcome this. b) Even assuming they get a FCA licence, still this does not allow them to resell ISA in smaller parts from multiple vendors. It looks a mistery to me You only have one IFISA account, and that with investUp. They provide the platform to make investments in multiple p2p platforms, but you still only have the one account with investup. Investup is already authorised and regulated by the FCA. However, IFISA investments can still only be made in P2P loans on FCA authorised platforms so the underlying p2p platforms will need to be authorised.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Apr 26, 2016 11:00:05 GMT
Investup would be the ISA manager/provider not the underlying platforms that provide the loans. They are not selling parts other platforms ISA but of their own ISA through which you can invest in loans on platforms. Same way as most S&S ISA providers are offering access to multiple funds from the people who actually manage the funds. yes, but investup itself is tiny. They would need to make agreements as 'broker/reseller' with other platforms. I strongly doubt the likes of FC, RS, Zopa or even SS might have any advantage in using their services. So, for the user there would not be be in it... Have a look at the site, they already offer loans from 25 P2P companies including SS, AC, Rebs, LC, TC, ABL to name a few.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Apr 26, 2016 12:13:44 GMT
yes, but investup itself is tiny. They would need to make agreements as 'broker/reseller' with other platforms. I strongly doubt the likes of FC, RS, Zopa or even SS might have any advantage in using their services. So, for the user there would not be be in it... Have a look at the site, they already offer loans from 25 P2P companies including SS, AC, Rebs, LC, TC, ABL to name a few. I have signed up with them in anticipation of them being the only/easiest/cheapest way of getting a IFISA but I see no advantage of investing in p2p through them outside of an ISA. The charge for non-ISA is 0.25% but I can't see what I get for that.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2016 12:44:54 GMT
yes, but investup itself is tiny. They would need to make agreements as 'broker/reseller' with other platforms. I strongly doubt the likes of FC, RS, Zopa or even SS might have any advantage in using their services. So, for the user there would not be be in it... Have a look at the site, they already offer loans from 25 P2P companies including SS, AC, Rebs, LC, TC, ABL to name a few. For basic loans, I can easily write a bot that, without any authororisation of the source sites, looks up for loans and auto-invests for clients. It is a bit like an automated financial consultant. Totally different is the ISA problem where the customer must be precisely tracked for HMRC In that case I believe they cannot invest without the explicit consent of the undelying platform (ie. acting as their broker).
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Apr 26, 2016 14:33:27 GMT
Have a look at the site, they already offer loans from 25 P2P companies including SS, AC, Rebs, LC, TC, ABL to name a few. For basic loans, I can easily write a bot that, without any authororisation of the source sites, looks up for loans and auto-invests for clients. It is a bit like an automated financial consultant. Totally different is the ISA problem where the customer must be precisely tracked for HMRC In that case I believe they cannot invest without the explicit consent of the undelying platform (ie. acting as their broker). Oh I see. You are saying that UP will choose the investments for you. I supposed that I would choose them myself. Are you sure that's how it works? If so that would explain their fee, but personally I would rather be in control. Later: No I don't think you are right. I just went onto the site and although I did not buy anything it seemed as if I could pick and choose. One funny thing - they claimed to have availability on SS loans when SS themselves said all were fully funded. Since I had no credit on the account I could not try to buy anything. I suspect that there is a time lag in the feed from SS and their data is out of date. But it is possible that SS allow them an allocation, in which case it might be worth paying 0.25% to get something not available on SS's own platform.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2016 14:57:34 GMT
For basic loans, I can easily write a bot that, without any authororisation of the source sites, looks up for loans and auto-invests for clients. It is a bit like an automated financial consultant. Totally different is the ISA problem where the customer must be precisely tracked for HMRC In that case I believe they cannot invest without the explicit consent of the undelying platform (ie. acting as their broker). Oh I see. You are saying that UP will choose the investments for you. I supposed that I would choose them myself. Are you sure that's how it works? If so that would explain their fee, but personally I would rather be in control. Later: No I don't think you are right. I just went onto the site and although I did not buy anything it seemed as if I could pick and choose. One funny thing - they claimed to have availability on SS loans when SS themselves said all were fully funded. Since I had no credit on the account I could not try to buy anything. I suspect that there is a time lag in the feed from SS and their data is out of date. But it is possible that SS allow them an allocation, in which case it might be worth paying 0.25% to get something not available on SS's own platform. For non-ISA loans there is no problem whatsover. They can buy every single loan out (SS loans included) and then resell to their customer when they ask for it. And they can let the customer pick and choose whatever he wants. It is dead easy to write a platform doing that. The problem is only for ISA loans and their tracking/HMRC accountability. I am not sure how they will solve it. Maybe Upinvest will buy and then resell the loan slice 'as if' it was their own ISA offer. But what about loan Agreement? Is is upinvest signing it and taking all the risks in case of defaults?
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Apr 26, 2016 15:57:45 GMT
An aggregator fee of 0.5% is possibly at the upper end of standard ISA aggregator fees (HL 0.45%, Bestinvest 0.4%) but with the potential for much greater returns on P2P is arguably worth it. AIUI, the 0.45% HL fee for ISAs applies if you are holding shares that you picked yourself, as opposed to managed funds. (I don't hold any managed funds in my HL S&S ISA, do I don't know what those fees would be.) The 0.45% fee does, however, have a £45/year cap, so if an account balance is greater than £10k it would be charged the maximum of £3.75/month and the actual fee paid over the course of a year would work out to be less than 0.45% p.a. of the average account balance.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Apr 26, 2016 17:48:39 GMT
investup's ISA is 0.5% with no upper cap ? The 1980's are calling and they want their fat charges back... To be fair nobody is paying it yet so they may have a cap once it starts.
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