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Post by andrewholgate on Mar 29, 2014 20:06:57 GMT
Sorry j1 reading on an iPhone which isn't the best view. The post was made by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ. I will have more on Monday. Winders are interesting. They are more usually rejected by the court as the debtor is looking to be a nusance. It's a forceful tactic. However we have been getting more information in this. And yes, we should have said it was being so. |
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Mar 29, 2014 20:15:39 GMT
Sorry j1 reading on an iPhone which isn't the best view. The post was made by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ. I will have more on Monday. Winders are interesting. They are more usually rejected by the court as the debtor is looking to be a nusance. It's a forceful tactic. However we have been getting more information in this. And yes, we should have said it was being so. With the calming voice of andrew all the E-T*****Y has now sold...
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Mar 29, 2014 21:33:49 GMT
With the calming voice of andrew all theE-T*****Y has now sold... I suspect Andrew had nothing to do with it. I'd be willing to bet that 90+% of the buyers are unaware of this thread and/or the situation. Luckily for me, I think, before seeing this thread I had already decided not to buy -- because I prefer loans with interim payments. You're right we're suffering from an information vacuum, if you hold some of this would you put a new question on the E-T*****Y loan proposal page asking for more info? I don't believe it's necessary to have a part of a loan in order to ask a question via a loan's Q&A page. Does anyone know for sure? A Petition to wind up the above-named Company ... will be heard at ... on 10 March 2014... I'm a tiny bit surprised that there isn't a website that could tell us whether the petition actually was heard on 10/Mar and, if it was, what was the result. Or if it wasn't, whether it was rescheduled or dropped. But perhaps I shouldn't be. A month or so ago I learned that an acquaintance of mine had been imprisoned, and I had no luck finding a website that could tell me anything about the offence or the sentence -- or anything at all about the case, for that matter.
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andy2001
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Post by andy2001 on Mar 29, 2014 21:55:59 GMT
I don't believe it's necessary to have a part of a loan in order to ask a question via a loan's Q&A page. Does anyone know for sure? You don't. If you did how would anyone ask a question on an auction in progress, to decide if they want to bid. All you need is to have an Assetz Capital account and be logged in.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Mar 29, 2014 22:06:04 GMT
I don't believe it's necessary to have a part of a loan in order to ask a question via a loan's Q&A page. Does anyone know for sure? You don't. If you did how would anyone ask a question on an auction in progress, to decide if they want to bid. All you need is to have an Assetz Capital account and be logged in. I was thinking that there could be a different treatment for loans that are still available for bidding -- or are in the pre-auction stage -- where anyone could ask a question, and those that have been drawn down and where there are no parts remaining with any underwriters, where question asking privileges might be limited. Personally, I'd prefer the completely open system andy2001 describes, inasmuch as parts from any loan could appear on the Aftermarket at any time.
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Post by chris on Mar 29, 2014 22:16:11 GMT
It's open as described.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Mar 29, 2014 22:16:45 GMT
With the calming voice of andrew all the E-T*****Y has now sold... I suspect Andrew had nothing to do with it. I'd be willing to bet that 90+% of the buyers are unaware of this thread and/or the situation. Luckily for me, I think, before seeing this thread I had already decided not to buy -- because I prefer loans with interim payments. You're right we're suffering from an information vacuum, if you hold some of this would you put a new question on the E-T*****Y loan proposal page asking for more info? I don't believe it's necessary to have a part of a loan in order to ask a question via a loan's Q&A page. Does anyone know for sure? A Petition to wind up the above-named Company ... will be heard at ... on 10 March 2014... I'm a tiny bit surprised that there isn't a website that could tell us whether the petition actually was heard on <<mode edit: the original date in early march>> and, if it was, what was the result. Or if it wasn't, whether it was rescheduled or dropped. But perhaps I shouldn't be. A month or so ago I learned that an acquaintance of mine had been imprisoned, and I had no luck finding a website that could tell me anything about the offence or the sentence -- or anything at all about the case, for that matter. I don't know if you were watching the AM as this was all going down, the stock was moving but there was always a couple of k sitting there from several different people, some would sell but more would appear, literally within moments to a few minutes it all disappeared after andrew's couple of posts. It could've been coincidence as at about the same time 25k was put into a live auction. It could also have been owners withdrawing it from sale (of course you have to buy it back you can't withdraw). I'm sure many buyers were unaware of the speculation, afterall there are less than 300 users of this board. I thought it was interesting how andrew holgate implied that in other situations certain accounts would be frozen, but not AC as we provide debt. He said, "We are investigating and will report in due course. With a winder (winding up petition) we would have to freeze current accounts, but we are only a debt provider. We will get answers but I am certain this is a default under material adverse change and we will act if this is the case." I appreciate andrew is probably taking about a company going into administration and having it's accounts frozen, but I wonder if AC are considering freezing sales on the AM of certain stocks when the news of this sort of of thing becomes apparent, or possibly even unwinding sales that have taken place on the AM.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Mar 29, 2014 22:45:01 GMT
I don't know if you were watching the AM as this was all going down, the stock was moving but there was always a couple of k sitting there from several different people, some would sell but more would appear, literally within moments to a few minutes it all disappeared after andrew's couple of posts. It could've been coincidence as at about the same time 25k was put into a live auction. It could also have been owners withdrawing it from sale (of course you have to buy it back you can't withdraw). I'm sure many buyers were unaware of the speculation, afterall there are less than 300 users of this board. I thought it was interesting how andrew holgate implied that in other situations certain accounts would be frozen, but not AC as we provide debt. He said, "We are investigating and will report in due course. With a winder (winding up petition) we would have to freeze current accounts, but we are only a debt provider. We will get answers but I am certain this is a default under material adverse change and we will act if this is the case." I appreciate andrew is probably taking about a company going into administration and having it's accounts frozen, but I wonder if AC are considering freezing sales on the AM of certain stocks when the news of this sort of of thing becomes apparent, or possibly even unwinding sales that have taken place on the AM. I was watching the AM for much of the time but was unaware of this thread until later, so I can't make any connections between AM activity and forum postings. I based my comment about the likelihood that most buyers were unaware just on the small number of lenders who watch the forum closely. I took Andrews comments about freezing accounts to relate to past activities AC have been involved in, where equity rather than debt was involved. I thought the point was that the risk of loss was low for secured debtors so no action was needed. If subsequent info comes out to suggest that there is a significant risk of loss on the AC loan parts, then it might be appropriate to stop trading in parts, and possibly even to unwind today's sales, though I can see where the latter action could be quite messy if the sellers had already deployed elsewhere the funds raised by the sales. PS. Immediately after posting the above, I refreshed my AM page and saw two parts totalling £60 for sale. Being nosey, I went to look to see who the seller was -- but they had been snapped up already.
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Post by pepperpot on Mar 29, 2014 23:29:24 GMT
I don't know if you were watching the AM as this was all going down, the stock was moving but there was always a couple of k sitting there from several different people, some would sell but more would appear, literally within moments to a few minutes it all disappeared after andrew's couple of posts. It could've been coincidence as at about the same time 25k was put into a live auction. It could also have been owners withdrawing it from sale (of course you have to buy it back you can't withdraw). I'm sure many buyers were unaware of the speculation, afterall there are less than 300 users of this board. I thought it was interesting how andrew holgate implied that in other situations certain accounts would be frozen, but not AC as we provide debt. He said, "We are investigating and will report in due course. With a winder (winding up petition) we would have to freeze current accounts, but we are only a debt provider. We will get answers but I am certain this is a default under material adverse change and we will act if this is the case." I appreciate andrew is probably taking about a company going into administration and having it's accounts frozen, but I wonder if AC are considering freezing sales on the AM of certain stocks when the news of this sort of of thing becomes apparent, or possibly even unwinding sales that have taken place on the AM. I was watching the AM for much of the time but was unaware of this thread until later, so I can't make any connections between AM activity and forum postings. I based my comment about the likelihood that most buyers were unaware just on the small number of lenders who watch the forum closely. I took Andrews comments about freezing accounts to relate to past activities AC have been involved in, where equity rather than debt was involved. I thought the point was that the risk of loss was low for secured debtors so no action was needed. If subsequent info comes out to suggest that there is a significant risk of loss on the AC loan parts, then it might be appropriate to stop trading in parts, and possibly even to unwind today's sales, though I can see where the latter action could be quite messy if the sellers had already deployed elsewhere the funds raised by the sales. PS. Immediately after posting the above, I refreshed my AM page and saw two parts totalling £60 for sale. Being nosey, I went to look to see who the seller was -- but they had been snapped up already. I saw those units too, but the name was one I hadn't seen before, and I can't even remember what it was  I thought Andrews comments probably refered to his previous life in RBS, where current accounts would be frozen, but with a loan there is nothing to freeze.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Mar 29, 2014 23:46:25 GMT
Earlier in this thread someone was saying something like sales of dubious stock shouldn't be allowed. I'm going back to that idea. If the dynamic bidding is being designed to be fair (I've not watched any of the videos) shouldn't it also be fair to those who only look at AC site once a week, and have no idea about all the fun we're just been having. I'm able to regularly check out what's happening, so I'll be losing out if deals are unwound. Hopefully this will only be a wrap on the knuckles and a higher interest rate next time or nothing at all.
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spockie
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Post by spockie on Mar 29, 2014 23:55:50 GMT
Surely people who have sold have acted on publicly available information. I don't see how sales can realistically be unwound. If Assetz declare the loan to be dodgy, then sales can be blocked at that point, but nobody has been acting on insider info. I don't see that you can retrospectively declare a loan to be dodgy.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Mar 30, 2014 0:09:11 GMT
Surely people who have sold have acted on publicly available information. I don't see how sales can realistically be unwound. If Assetz declare the loan to be dodgy, then sales can be blocked at that point, but nobody has been acting on insider info. I don't see that you can retrospectively declare a loan to be dodgy. I think part of the problem is that some people might be in the know and others might not be in the know, some might say "hard luck" of course but we're really talking about trading in information. So the unsuspecting buyer of x or y loan dodgy or not needs to be aware of the new info. Today's new info was not on AC so how can everyone know. How fair does AC want to be or can it be? There are limitations. (this board has about 300 users plus guests?)
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Post by jevans4949 on Mar 30, 2014 0:52:03 GMT
My guess would be that most of the buyers were people who had joined Assetz after the auction closed, probably had money sitting in their holding account, and wished to diversify. They probably also hadn't seen this discussion.
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koba
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Post by koba on Mar 30, 2014 9:58:31 GMT
I agree with Spockie 'Surely people who have sold have acted on publicly available information. I don't see how sales can realistically be unwound. If Assetz declare the loan to be dodgy, then sales can be blocked at that point, but nobody has been acting on insider info. I don't see that you can retrospectively declare a loan to be dodgy.' More importantly right now there is only tentative evidence of trouble (the winding up petition may be tactical, the company involved is not part of the loan, the security and PGs remain intact etc.). As things stand NOW those who have sold have given up a lot of opportunity cost (bidding, funding, waiting) to achieve a little more peace of mind. Those that have bought have gotten access to inventory they would not otherwise have had access to with interest accruing immediately. It all comes down to risk preferences. The fact that some may have bought without taking ten minutes to google the most recent news or do a credit search should not, IMHO, entitle them to special treatment. Unwinding the deals only IF there is a real issue would be both unfair and dangerous. Unfair because it becomes win-win for the purchaser and lose-lose for the seller. Dangerous because it make investing on uncertain news a one way bet - and these always have bad consequences eventually. The deals should stand but, if they are to be unwound, this should happen first thing Monday morning BEFORE the situation is clarified.
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spockie
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Post by spockie on Mar 30, 2014 10:13:30 GMT
The same info was available to everybody. Those who sold have not sold based on some nudge nudge wink wink information that was slipped to them by somebody at AC. I agree that not everybody reads this forum, but the fact remains that it is here, publicly available for all to read if they so choose. It would indeed by treating yesterday's and today's buyers more favourably than all previous buyers of E-T*****Y loan parts. I hope unwinding recent sales will not be an option that AC considers. I have no problem with them blocking sales once they themselves have announced that there is indeed a problem, if that is the case.
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