ben
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Post by ben on May 19, 2016 16:22:00 GMT
Nice Video. Fair and balanced view. balanced? how it basically saying how excellent SS was and if there was any isuses its ok we can claim agaisnt rogue valuations so it all be rosey and not to worry.
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mikes1531
Member of DD Central
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Post by mikes1531 on May 19, 2016 20:01:52 GMT
Watch 2mins+ on the video. "If The valuer gets it wrong, Savingstream has recourse to recover any shortfalls in a rogue valuation" No talk of negligent in that statement. What is rogue? I would say a piece of land with OPP that was valued at £1m, but only had offers at £500k after 6 months, that the original valuation was rogue. basically if it turns out the person that did the valuation did not actualy have the required qualificaiton or deliberitly mislead for what ever reason if they get it wrong as who to say it wrong market conditions would have changed. ISTM that this would be hard to 'prove' in court. The valuation is an educated guess of value at the time of the valuation. If the security is sold a year or so later and doesn't fetch that value, there are all sorts of legitimate reasons that might happen -- failure to maintain adequately, neighbourhood goes out of fashion, general market downturn, didn't market the property well enough, didn't wait long enough for the right buyer to come along, etc., etc. AC have a number of cases which are heading for sales for amounts well below valuations, and they've been asked by investors whether claims against the valuers might be possible. AC have said 'Yes', but I don't get the feeling they think any significant recovery would be likely, and IIRC they have pointed out that litigation costs could be substantial, with no guarantee of success. As with any litigation, before embarking on such a path, the platform -- or investors if they're asked to vote -- would have to decide that the net value of a positive result outweighs the net cost of negative result.
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boble
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Post by boble on May 19, 2016 23:33:51 GMT
The fact is that RICS valuers are successfully sued in negligence. Of course, nothing is without risk and the lender must ensure that the their instructions to the valuer are correct and that the report properly satisfied their requirements. The lender must also ensure by sound qualified evidence that the property was correctly sold at a lower value.
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mikes1531
Member of DD Central
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Post by mikes1531 on May 20, 2016 0:14:24 GMT
The fact is that RICS valuers are successfully sued in negligence. Of course, nothing is without risk and the lender must ensure that the their instructions to the valuer are correct and that the report properly satisfied their requirements. The lender must also ensure by sound qualified evidence that the property was correctly sold at a lower value. To sue, or not to sue, that is the question! I'm really not sure whether I prefer the SS situation where, AFAIK, they'll decide whether any case is worth pursuing, or the AC situation, where they'll tell lenders little more than how much a lawsuit might cost, and ask their investors to vote. Actually, I'm not even sure they'll give that much info because it probably falls in the category of 'how long is a piece of string'. AC definitely won't give a recommendation, or say what they'd do if the decision was theirs to make. Investors' opinions will cover a huge range -- from those who'll say "don't bother suing" and "distribute the money being held back for the lawyers", to those determined to pursue the valuer no matter how much it costs. Not knowing any details of any specific case, I think I'm of the opinion that the only ones who win in this sort of dispute are the lawyers!
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ben
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Post by ben on May 20, 2016 6:44:27 GMT
The fact is that RICS valuers are successfully sued in negligence. Of course, nothing is without risk and the lender must ensure that the their instructions to the valuer are correct and that the report properly satisfied their requirements. The lender must also ensure by sound qualified evidence that the property was correctly sold at a lower value. some of the valuations might be a little on the generous side but I doubt they are significantly wrong and it would be a long drown out process that would probably cost more then what the valuation was wrong for, SS made it sounded like if in case of loss they would just sue the valuer and problem solved we all go home happy
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boble
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Post by boble on May 20, 2016 10:46:36 GMT
I think it may be worth mentioning that a sale at less than the loan exposure is not a total loss. The difference is the risk we take in return for the relatively high reward. Also, SS operate a fund which will, hopefully, at least in part cover any shortfall.
It is worth noting that Liam and Tim are very astute and wish to build a flagship business, so there no doubt in my mind that they will take all reasonable measures to protect this. I should also mention that like all subscribers to this forum, I am merely an investor and have no other interest is SS, or alternative agenda.
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Post by earthbound on May 20, 2016 10:55:21 GMT
The fact is that RICS valuers are successfully sued in negligence. Of course, nothing is without risk and the lender must ensure that the their instructions to the valuer are correct and that the report properly satisfied their requirements. The lender must also ensure by sound qualified evidence that the property was correctly sold at a lower value. SS made it sounded like if in case of loss they would just sue the valuer and problem solved we all go home happy That's how I saw it.. it's a typical mohamed Ali presentation ( I am the greatest) ... I took it all with a pinch of salt.
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ben
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Post by ben on May 20, 2016 11:12:17 GMT
SS made it sounded like if in case of loss they would just sue the valuer and problem solved we all go home happy That's how I saw it.. it's a typical mohamed Ali presentation ( I am the greatest) ... I took it all with a pinch of salt. Still not quite sure why they want to push for new investors unless they have noticed that a lot of there ones that were core investors have not been bothering much latley due to the amount they are getting and are leaving
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ben
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Post by ben on May 20, 2016 11:15:04 GMT
I doubt the vid cost them more than about £10-15k to be produced, so it's nice to see SS spending its promotional budget carefully. Be suprised if it cost a £1000, suppose it depends how much they had to pay the so called investors
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Post by earthbound on May 20, 2016 11:19:03 GMT
That's how I saw it.. it's a typical mohamed Ali presentation ( I am the greatest) ... I took it all with a pinch of salt. Still not quite sure why they want to push for new investors unless they have noticed that a lot of there ones that were core investors have not been bothering much latley due to the amount they are getting and are leaving I think there are an awful lot of sign ups who never invest, they simply find it too difficult via the SM and are not prepared to be patient via the PF. and TBH the way the loans disappear out o the window , why push for more investors at this point in time, unless they have even bigger loan ambitions in the pipeline.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on May 20, 2016 11:19:34 GMT
I doubt the vid cost them more than about £10-15k to be produced, so it's nice to see SS spending its promotional budget carefully. Be suprised if it cost a £1000, suppose it depends how much they had to pay the so called investors Be careful - that could be classed as slander I'm pretty sure the investors in the video were real; rogerbu posted on this forum about his HQ visit as a result of being asked to provide a video testimony
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ben
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Post by ben on May 20, 2016 11:45:27 GMT
Be suprised if it cost a £1000, suppose it depends how much they had to pay the so called investors Be careful - that could be classed as slander I'm pretty sure the investors in the video were real; rogerbu posted on this forum about his HQ visit as a result of being asked to provide a video testimony must be a first actually using investors rather then actors
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Post by p2plender on May 20, 2016 11:47:30 GMT
Well I've managed to get a substantial amount via the SM. Taken a few weeks but it can be done.
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Post by earthbound on May 20, 2016 11:51:25 GMT
A few weeks?... Are you not practicing the FFF procedure.
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Post by lb on May 20, 2016 11:58:38 GMT
suing surveyors for negligent valuations is nigh on impossible and goes something like this:
lender sues for loss (eg £500,000)
surveyor notifies insurers
lender lawyer and insurer lawyer battle it out, incur ~ £50k each on getting to a position where all documentation on both sides has been disclosed and reviewed
However negligent the surveyor may be, their insurers will be able to claim a) contributory negligence and b) failure to adequately mitigate losses and then apply the SAAAMCO cap
settlement is then reached whereby insurers pay both sides costs and lender will get a miserly settlement of ~ £50k also to walk away - or bear the risk of paying all sides costs
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