jjc
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Post by jjc on May 19, 2016 16:18:38 GMT
Not sure what we’re allowed to say on this forum re co’s raising equity but, as those subscribed to SyndicateRoom's emailing list will know, there’s an event next Wed 25th at Canary Wharf to meet the team of ET I, which might interest those with green leanings. Anyone looking at this raise, or thinking of attending? Haven’t delved but looks like a strong team with some prominent names onboard. Goncalo | SyndicateRoom, are we allowed / encouraged / discouraged / forbidden from making any crowd duedil on this board, or should these be via PM (or on yr site only)? |
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on May 19, 2016 19:00:47 GMT
There are plenty of public articles about them, for example I think that in general companies raising money want to let people know. I am interested in investing, but I don't think that I make the event. |
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Post by Goncalo | SyndicateRoom on May 24, 2016 6:58:41 GMT
Goncalo | SyndicateRoom , are we allowed / encouraged / discouraged / forbidden from making any crowd duedil on this board, or should these be via PM (or on yr site only)? Hi JJC, We can't forbid, certainly don't discourage and even welcome generic crowd duedil on this board - as you know we are all in for transparency. However please note that any confidential information about any of the companies raising finance should not be disclosed here for obvious reasons - it should be done via SyndicateRoom site only so that the confidential information is behind login. I hope this helps, Goncalo
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 9:15:33 GMT
Just had a good chat with Marcin, solved a few of my problems and just made a very small investment. I've been a non-investing member of Seedrs for some time and so this will be my first foray into equity crowd-funding. Diversity seems to be a key tool, just like in P2P and a recognition that there will either be success or failure in early stage start ups (little chance of getting a sub 100% percentage back). Will probably limit this to less than 10% of my P2P investments. On the other hand there may not be any more interesting companies.  Onwards.. |
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Jun 29, 2016 10:31:09 GMT
Just had a good chat with Marcin, solved a few of my problems and just made a very small investment. I've been a non-investing member of Seedrs for some time and so this will be my first foray into equity crowd-funding. Diversity seems to be a key tool, just like in P2P and a recognition that there will either be success or failure in early stage start ups (little chance of getting a sub 100% percentage back). Will probably limit this to less than 10% of my P2P investments. On the other hand there may not be any more interesting companies. Onwards.. Diversity is a double edged sword as many of these investments are quite time consuming. Nearly all will need more money than they thought, probably because sales are slower than expected, occasionally because things are going better than expected. Working out which is which and how much extra (if any) to invest does take time. Can you say which investment took your fancy?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 11:38:01 GMT
I've messaged you the deal.
The risks of dilution are there. What interested me was
1) The major investor is a sensible one
2) The have been and are in receipt of various grants
now if I was a vampire...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 11:12:18 GMT
Just to say, deal went live today, the senior investor stepped up to fill in the final ~20% and that releases further funding. I'll advise if and when interesting things happen.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 16:38:39 GMT
Just spotted a power electronics substrate of diamond is coming in for a new funding round. Any thoughts?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 11:25:08 GMT
I was doing some conservative thinking about Syndicate room.
Lets say I invest £1k.
I get my income tax back on this so it really costs me more like £700
I "lose" 56% because statistically 56% of such loans default at with zero return, so my £1k capital is really £500
So so-far my £440 investment has cost me only £700.
But, any capital gains is tax free if the basic rules are followed, which includes holding for min 3 years, but stats show you lose all you money in 4 years and cash-out in 6 years
So if I make 59% on my £440 I win back my £700. If I make any more, it's tax free.
59% simple over 6 years is 8% growth per year, which does not sound too tough a call.
Does this make sense to everyone or have I missed something?
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Jul 9, 2016 15:55:46 GMT
I was doing some conservative thinking about Syndicate room. Lets say I invest £1k. I get my income tax back on this so it really costs me more like £700 I "lose" 56% because statistically 56% of such loans default at with zero return, so my £1k capital is really £500 So so-far my £440 investment has cost me only £700. But, any capital gains is tax free if the basic rules are followed, which includes holding for min 3 years, but stats show you lose all you money in 4 years and cash-out in 6 years So if I make 59% on my £440 I win back my £700. If I make any more, it's tax free. 59% simple over 6 years is 8% growth per year, which does not sound too tough a call. Does this make sense to everyone or have I missed something? Yes I think that you are missing some things. Firstly these are equity investments not loans. Another is that you can offset your losses against future income tax, and so you get another benefit there. A further thing is that I suspect that the numbers you use are unlikely to very close to the mark. It would be good if you referenced where you got the 56%, lose in 4 years and cash out in 6 years from. I think that the environment has been benign for the last four or so years so it has been easy for companies to raise money. I suspect that companies which might have failed will now survive for longer, but then fail anyway. And my guess is that more businesses are being financed than would have been in the past so I suspect that the overall failure rate will be higher. A friend who has been doing this for quite a few years tells me that exits are rare and take longer than expected. I also guess that your successful 44% will be made up of a few with big wins and some mediocre returns. Almost all of the return might come from the best 10% of investments so diversification is going to be important, but then this gets time consuming quite quickly.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 16:04:35 GMT
thanks bigfoot, yes a lazy habit like dropping in the term "loan" in the middle of an equity discussion (finds no icon for shooting brains out) The numbers come from www.nesta.org.uk/sites/default/files/siding_with_the_angels.pdf. Suggests multiple equity wins >x10 only occur on 9% of deals, so your 10% lines up pretty neatly. loses against further income tax (and no capital gains tax), that is more valuable, thanks |
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Aug 16, 2016 18:34:04 GMT
Regarding diversification and the prize of the 10x winner there is now or will soon be a passive EIS Tracker Fund, Fund Twenty8 which has the objective of investing in at least 28 companies. Apparently, 28 is the magic number that promises a 95% chance of scoring a 10x winner. I'm not sure if I like the blanket approach, or the level of fees (including performance fee) but it is an interesting idea.
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locutus
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Post by locutus on Aug 16, 2016 20:00:51 GMT
Regarding diversification and the prize of the 10x winner there is now or will soon be a passive EIS Tracker Fund, Fund Twenty8 which has the objective of investing in at least 28 companies. Apparently, 28 is the magic number that promises a 95% chance of scoring a 10x winner. I'm not sure if I like the blanket approach, or the level of fees (including performance fee) but it is an interesting idea. Am I missing something? If I invest £1 in 28 different companies and have a 95% chance of one of those companies generating £10, haven't I effectively just lost £18?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2016 7:09:21 GMT
The stats suggest another proportion will get back their money or merely double their money. That converts into a 22% annual return but taking 4 to 6 years to come out.
What that doesn't say is were these assets identified randomly or did the investor carry out some sort of selection process.
For me I'd like to choose how I lose my money, certainly the idea of helping develop a plastic back for a jeep fills me with dread, there are a few out there already and the money they seem to need is out of proportion to the costs required, if I took up with this fund I'd be stuck into things like that.
My other thoughts are about time passing. Were the loans all available at the same time and in the same economic conditions, what were the industries they focused on, etc ? Very little on this core information. I suspect it would take 3 years to find 30 or so deals you would be interested in so say 1 every 45 days. The use of a fund sounds like a good idea but it is going to tend to be based on what is available now. Well right now the deals out there are not that exciting, I just think that "now" at any time is going to have lots of dogs and just a few stars. So buying into a fund drives you into the dogs.
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Nov 22, 2016 18:42:48 GMT
Fund Twenty8 "the world’s first passive EIS fund" is now open for investment and conveniently one EIS certificate covers all investments, the fund closes at the end of the year and starts investing in January, minimum of £10k to participate.
In the last year or so I have found that I might invest in only a fairly small fraction of the opportunities on offer and so I don't think that I like the prospect of investing in all of them even if it saves me the time spent studying the pitch.
I suppose it is a bit like a passive VCT restricted to the companies raising funds on Syndicate Room.
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