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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2017 11:27:03 GMT
I felt the FS report on the Scottish Boatyard was about right, when I punt-poled it many months ago (apart from a watching loan), the borrower took over from a previous failed owner, the harbour is still on the same desolate coast of Scotland and the only likely customer of its services, the oil industry, is still in terminal (sic) decline. Putting in a fish and chip van would make more money.
What has seriously impressed me is that FS have managed to sell this dog onto anyone, let alone at a figure close to our valuation before fees. Who, in their right mind, is going to make any money on this plot?
Just out of interest, is anyone lending to this Russian @@@@ made of lousy wood which has now had its hull timbers and its structural timbers replaced (think change the handle and the head of a brush) and what 2 monkeys are considering buying it?
Have a great weekend.
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gc
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Post by gc on Aug 20, 2017 11:18:07 GMT
I have been doing this for a few years now, and when it comes to FS, two posts sum this up...
I couldn't agree more with these and unless FS can show some "more" due diligence when it to the way they assign these loans, I for one will let my investments phase themselves out..
That said, I have come across other platforms that I would run a mile from, FS are not yet on that list.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Aug 20, 2017 11:58:27 GMT
Anyone out there with contacts in the meedja? This is a great story they would love to cover and expose I'd have thought. Yes, a number of media outlets including some of the broadsheets routinely read this forum. However the level of losses incurred by p2p investors over the last ten years have been miniscule, and whilst the furore in the media last year over Lendy's PBL064 (& PBL056) concerning the borrower's background was "interesting", it still does not equate (yet) to a lender having actually lost money. There will be examples in the coming years which will get reported in the national media when losses have occured, across a variety of platforms, where the original decision to lend or the information presented to lenders turns out to be questionable. ozboy , if you have evidence of malpractise with the boatyard loan, that you feel would stand up in court, please PM me the details and I'll ensure it gets seen by the team at the FCA monitoring p2p (and specifcally the team responsible for ongoing monitoring of FS). Or, if you fancy a day trip to London (Canary Wharf) I may be able to facilitate a meeting for you to present the evidence in person. Have PM'd you.
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merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
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Post by merlin on Aug 20, 2017 14:20:14 GMT
OK guys and gals I can understand how you feel about how this loan has ended up. However before you go leaping off into legal uncharted waters think hard about what you want as a final outcome. I fully encourage all and sundry to put a formal complaint into FS or LY if you feel you have been dealt with badly but please don't make it a whinge. Whinging is what we do on hear but if you do it to a provider they will probably trot out some platitudes whilst laughing at you behind your back. If you feel you have been dealt with in that way then by all means make a formal complaint to the financial ombudsman and then if necessary on to the FCA. If enough of us did this then change may just happen.
Sometime back I got seriously annoyed with FC over a loan which became known as "Crappy Scrappy". When all I got from FC was either silence or nonsense I got a little annoyed and had my complaint aired on Channel 4's Despatches programme. The following morning I received a phone call from one of the founders of FC who was in high dudgeon implying that I was trying to destroy their business and P2P in general. This was not the outcome I was seeking. I had hoped that FC would have subsequently put more effort into their DD and cleaned up their act. I also hoped that it may have also pushed a few other providers into doing the same thing. Incidentally my action on Despatches I am reliably informed, did cost FC customers in the short term.
Regrettably as far as I can tell nothing much has happened since, viewed from my perspective as a lender. DD is still in many cases pathetic and rests on a conventional attitude of "do as little as possible to get bye". Debt recovery is also dealt with in the same way which leaves borrowers seriously annoyed and ultimately out of pocket.
So if you want action first think what type, then start writing.
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btc
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Post by btc on Aug 20, 2017 15:02:49 GMT
How much went to FSs cut with our money?
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Post by dan1 on Aug 20, 2017 15:22:26 GMT
How much went to FSs cut with our money? I'm not in this loan but assuming there is a capital loss then FS will get nothing, see 6.2.5 of their Terms & Conditions for the order of payments from the sale.
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btc
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Post by btc on Aug 20, 2017 15:37:13 GMT
I think we need to see the actual paperwork instead of trusting what FS says
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Aug 20, 2017 15:59:28 GMT
I think we need to see the actual paperwork instead of trusting what FS says Dream on, I'm afraid. Bottom line is that if you don't trust a platform to be straight with you, don't lend your money there.
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ozboy
Member of DD Central
Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Aug 20, 2017 18:44:32 GMT
The sale price achieved (before costs) is 90% of the distressed sale valuation (the '90 day marketing valuation') , the loan was 100% LTV wrt the distressed sale valuation. On those figures it will, IMO, be very hard to prove a case of negligence against the valuer. Valuing one off assets is very difficult. EDIT: Rather than taking the meaning of phrases such as '90 day marketing valuation' literally, it is perhaps better (for our purposes) to think of it as the price to which the asset has to drop to attract a speculative buyer who wasn't specifically in the market for such an asset. Au contraire mrclondon, methinks we have a very good case. The 90 day Value three years ago, in 2014, might have been £250K, BUT, the yard went up in Value ( allegedly, for it was a "Professional" who said so, so it must be true) by £80K, PLUS the £160K spent on refurbishing the slipway. So the "new" 2017 90 day/"Distressed Sale Value" must surely be at least £325K? I contend that we DO have a Claim, and a very clearcut one. IMHO. However Investors can't Claim, I believe FS has to? But will they, THAT is the Question.
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Post by reeknralf on Aug 20, 2017 19:03:01 GMT
I think we need to see the actual paperwork instead of trusting what FS says Dream on, I'm afraid. Bottom line is that if you don't trust a platform to be straight with you, don't lend your money there. I can't see that this is very useful advice. The notion of 'if you don't like/trust them go elsewhere' gets repeated a lot, but the reality is that I don't like or trust any of them. Nor do I need to, nor they to like or trust me. We just need to trust each other sufficiently that both expects the exchange to be beneficial. I fully expect each and every P2P platform to be economic with the truth when it suits them, likewise all banks and building societies. And especially the government... If you're investing on the assumption that any institution is always being completely straight with you, it'll one day come back and bite you on the arse.
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btc
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Post by btc on Aug 21, 2017 8:53:32 GMT
I think we need to see the actual paperwork instead of trusting what FS says Dream on, I'm afraid. Bottom line is that if you don't trust a platform to be straight with you, don't lend your money there. I would not trust FS now, it was a different storey before my money was held hostage for a long time.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 11:12:16 GMT
£160k on the slipway...... have you considered how big a job that must have been and why you would spend that much. I've worked with Scottish engineering firms located on Lochs to allow deep water access to large vessels, and no way would we have sanctioned that much spend on spec.
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11025
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Post by 11025 on Aug 21, 2017 11:51:15 GMT
Does anyone know what the reasons for this not going to auction were ? Generally the sold at auction scenario tends to give all people concerned an idea that the price was as fair as could be under the prevailing circumstances
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Aug 21, 2017 12:06:46 GMT
Does anyone know what the reasons for this not going to auction were ? Generally the sold at auction scenario tends to give all people concerned an idea that the price was as fair as could be under the prevailing circumstances Because the administrators decided they could get a better price through a private sale.
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11025
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Post by 11025 on Aug 21, 2017 12:12:34 GMT
Does anyone know what the reasons for this not going to auction were ? Generally the sold at auction scenario tends to give all people concerned an idea that the price was as fair as could be under the prevailing circumstances Because the administrators decided they could get a better price through a private sale. That is interesting , I am sure with others I would like to know what led them to this apparently strange decision.
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