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Post by meledor on May 27, 2016 10:17:39 GMT
Clearly both are problems (widely acknowledged in the past, as demonstrated by other pre-funding restrictions that SS have previously implemented). The 7 day selling restriction applies equally to parts acquired via the PM and the SM and should help reduce both types of abuse. Some of the problem is generated as a result of their pre-funding model - there is no way to accurate guess what amount you will achieve, therefore unless your happy with less than what you want 70% of the time, they have brought the 'over funding' with the pre funding model on themselves Therefore penalizing people because there pre funding system doesn't work well, is not right Fair enough penalize those blatantly buying on SM, holding and then selling a couple days later
Hopefully as a result of the measure Saving Stream has introduced it will be easier to guess what amount you will achieve. I define gaming as setting a prefunding level beyond the amount you could transfer in within the required 24 hour time period. If we can't sell until we have paid for the loan we are going to be more careful in future. In that sense prefunding which is an excellent feature of SS will work even better.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on May 27, 2016 10:44:08 GMT
But you CAN sell -- you just have to sell the one you bought last week, instead of the one you bought yesterday. It is not clear to me how that makes much of a change to anything. Oh, and having sold the one you bought last week, you can then go on to sell the one you bought (too much of) yesterday, whenever you feel like it. I agree with whoever it was upstream who said they're not sure what the problem is that this is the best solution to. 8>.
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ben
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Post by ben on May 27, 2016 10:49:12 GMT
But you CAN sell -- you just have to sell the one you bought last week, instead of the one you bought yesterday. It is not clear to me how that makes much of a change to anything. Oh, and having sold the one you bought last week, you can then go on to sell the one you bought (too much of) yesterday, whenever you feel like it. I agree with whoever it was upstream who said they're not sure what the problem is that this is the best solution to. 8>. Whatever they do someone will find a work around unfortuntly. I doubt that this will solve the problem but it will make it harder for people to cheat the system and wil make accounts that are doing this with large amounts stand easier.
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littleoldlady
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Running down all platforms due to age
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Post by littleoldlady on May 27, 2016 10:49:22 GMT
But you CAN sell -- you just have to sell the one you bought last week, instead of the one you bought yesterday. It is not clear to me how that makes much of a change to anything. Oh, and having sold the one you bought last week, you can then go on to sell the one you bought (too much of) yesterday, whenever you feel like it. . 8>. True, but if you have held a loan for over a week it is likely to be one which you wish to keep. And if you eliminate your overdraft in this way just to sell a recently bought loan then you will be reducing your overall investment.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on May 27, 2016 10:51:33 GMT
I disagree; the one I have "held for over a week" is just the LAST one that I bought too much of (by over prefunding). I guess it might stop 'an ever increasing spiral', but it won't get people to prefund what they actually want.
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ben
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Post by ben on May 27, 2016 10:56:30 GMT
I disagree; the one I have "held for over a week" is just the LAST one that I bought too much of (by over prefunding). I guess it might stop 'an ever increasing spiral', but it won't get people to prefund what they actually want. There will always be people who will buy too much of the latest loan and then sell down older loans as they think that as they are newer it is safer. Not that I agree with that but I can see some people point but one day they may have a shock and not be able to sell and hold far to much of a loan that goes bad. But the majority of people who want a diversified portfolio will not want to sell some of there older loans to pay for the new ones so that should cut them prefunding to much. As they may have to sell a loan they do not want to.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on May 27, 2016 11:03:04 GMT
Well, we shall have to wait and see. I might yet be surprised. The spiral can run both ways - if prefunding requests actually ARE lowered, then next time they'll be lower still (allowing for new members). I just don't think it will happen (i.e, I am not rushing away to change my own, and nor is my partner). Of course what I (and maybe you) do doesn't have much impact - 80% of the loan is going to 20% of the lenders, and a 2x overbid by the top half dozen could easily consume an extra £m or so.
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Post by harvey on May 27, 2016 11:05:12 GMT
I have to say this 7 day restrictions on being able to sell a new buy is fantastic and something that's been so obvious for a long time. it's a shame that some people have missed out and drifted away because of this incessant gaming of the system when there is a new launch but at least the problem was big enough and enough people complained about it obviously to make the guys take actions.
the next new Loan launch of a size will be a fascinating experience to watch and the see how much higher a percentage of what we would like we are now allocated. I am sure it was the 10% we got on a couple of biggie's recently that was the straw that broke the camels back and saving stream listen and said yes you're right enough is enough.
you will always get the gamers players and cheaters attacking any measure introduced to stop people getting an unfair advantage and putting others at a disadvantage but it's interesting when you read who is complaining about anything like this you know those will be the people who are up to no good because the people who play with a straight bat have nothing whatsoever to fear and will not be affected at all, the only effect on them can be positive.
Is a new loan is launching soon and I look at my account and I just sighed I would like a £2,000 Stake in it. £2,000 is the number I will enter in my pre funding table exactly as before and that is exactly what many other people will be doing exactly as before.
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Post by meledor on May 27, 2016 11:14:51 GMT
Well Saving Stream are making the same point in the just released go live notice:
"All investors should ensure their pre-funding levels for these loans are accurate. This is very important now as you will NOT be able to sell new investment allocations, if you have negative available funds. "
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Post by earthbound on May 27, 2016 11:29:14 GMT
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on May 27, 2016 12:49:05 GMT
But you CAN sell -- you just have to sell the one you bought last week, instead of the one you bought yesterday. It is not clear to me how that makes much of a change to anything. Oh, and having sold the one you bought last week, you can then go on to sell the one you bought (too much of) yesterday, whenever you feel like it. I agree with whoever it was upstream who said they're not sure what the problem is that this is the best solution to. 8>. At least in future, whatever a lender gets via pre-funding (or the SM) they have to pay for with their own money, be it with new cash they transfer in or by selling something they've paid for previously. It won't stop someone who wants to hold, say, £100 in every loan from always trying to get hold of £1000 in the most recent loan and selling £900 of it when the next one launches. But at least they'll have had to load their account with the £1000 "float". What it should stop are the gamers who have a portfolio of, say, £50k but try to get £20k in each new loan in the knowledge they can sell £18k after 24 hours (getting a day's free interest on it) and keep the £2k they're actually able to pay for. Or at least, when they next do so they'll either have to sell £18k of older loans (that they'd prefer to keep) or else admit to SS that they're in no position to pay for it all.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on May 27, 2016 13:10:06 GMT
I'm all in favour of 'no interest on parts you haven't paid for' (whether on PM or SM), and this will help with that for sure. I just don't think it'll solve the prefund gaming issue, but we shall see. Maybe a poll is in order, let me go think about one!
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on May 27, 2016 14:12:02 GMT
It won't stop someone who wants to hold, say, £100 in every loan from always trying to get hold of £1000 in the most recent loan and selling £900 of it when the next one launches. But at least they'll have had to load their account with the £1000 "float". What it should stop are the gamers who have a portfolio of, say, £50k but try to get £20k in each new loan in the knowledge they can sell £18k after 24 hours (getting a day's free interest on it) and keep the £2k they're actually able to pay for. Or at least, when they next do so they'll either have to sell £18k of older loans (that they'd prefer to keep) or else admit to SS that they're in no position to pay for it all. : As you've explained in your first paragraph above, the new change simply means that the people in the second paragraph just have to load their accounts with £18k of float and continue as before -- buying £20k of every new large loan and selling £18k of the previous large loan 24 hours later to cover their negative balance. As long as they have £18k to spare for the job, of course.
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stevio
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Post by stevio on May 27, 2016 16:24:14 GMT
Why don't they just not pay interest till funds are received - SIMPLE!
SS had one good idea of giving credit for few days to allow you not having to have cash on account earning no interest
Since then they have introduced a series of bad ideas to restrict investment (particularly for new investors)
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Post by GSV3MIaC on May 27, 2016 16:33:17 GMT
Why don't they just not pay interest till funds are received - SIMPLE! As discussed when the 7-day thing was (accidentally) previewed, it's simple in theory, but the way SS handles interest (rack it up on each loan part for each day you hold it .. add them up to decide what to pay you) makes it hard in practice - they would need a new 'date paid for' field on every loan part, which is a big database change. They could have tackled it in a couple of ways - no interest on anything for 48 hours, whether you'd paid or not (OK by me), or an imaginary 'U-owe-us' loan which costs you 12%/month for each midnight you hold it (i.e. you pay them interest on your debt at the same rate they pay you on bought parts). This 7 day lock will probably solve it too, but IMO it has too many strange side effects, which probably were not intended. Still, it's their business, not mine, so they can arrange it how they like (and I'll decide whether/how/how much to play based on their decisions).
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