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Post by dualinvestor on Jun 6, 2016 14:09:48 GMT
For very different reasons I believe there will not be a realisation from this loan to lenders. Do you mean 0 recovery of capital? (I see there are a couple of votes for this) If so, why?? the security is going to be worth something! What am I missing?? I'm sorry but I am not going to elucidate further but I repeat (and regret that I hold it) my opinion lenders in PBL20 will not get any return. Others can and do have a very different opinion as demonstrated by the poll but many did vote before a lot of the facts that have come to light over the last 24 hours.
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Post by dualinvestor on Jun 6, 2016 14:20:15 GMT
Lendy Finance are the trading name of Lendy Ltd and probably the entity that the borrower dealt with so looks like when the return has been filed the wrong name has been used. What do we make of the directors other company, established 2 days after the administration, which they promptly resigned from the day after and apppointed their wives, daughters? in their stead? It is not entirely beyond the bounds of possibility that company might end up as the purchaser from the Administrator. I think most people would be surprised at how often that happens
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Post by lb on Jun 6, 2016 14:22:28 GMT
Do you mean 0 recovery of capital? (I see there are a couple of votes for this) If so, why?? the security is going to be worth something! What am I missing?? I'm sorry but I am not going to elucidate further but I repeat (and regret that I hold it) my opinion lenders in PBL20 will not get any return. Others can and do have a very different opinion as demonstrated by the poll but many did vote before a lot of the facts that have come to light over the last 24 hours. by "any return" do you mean you think that lenders will get 0 interest or 0 capital?
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Post by dualinvestor on Jun 6, 2016 14:25:41 GMT
I do not think lenders will receive anything, interest or capital
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Post by lb on Jun 6, 2016 15:01:58 GMT
I do not think lenders will receive anything, interest or capital well the only explanation for that would be the security/charge being invalid due to fraud ... Administrator fees DO NOT trump a first charge (or any secured loan for that matter)
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Post by earthbound on Jun 6, 2016 15:06:45 GMT
Lendy Finance are the trading name of Lendy Ltd and probably the entity that the borrower dealt with so looks like when the return has been filed the wrong name has been used. What do we make of the directors other company, established 2 days after the administration, which they promptly resigned from the day after and apppointed their wives, daughters? in their stead? It is not entirely beyond the bounds of possibility that company might end up as the purchaser from the Administrator. I think most people would be surprised at how often that happens Indeed it does, in fact i know of a b**t y**d in e******h where this happened in the recent past, and will most likely be happening in the near future as well.
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Jun 6, 2016 15:12:56 GMT
I do not think lenders will receive anything, interest or capital well the only explanation for that would be the security/charge being invalid due to fraud ... Administrator fees DO NOT trump a first charge (or any secured loan for that matter) Arrgh, the F word!
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 6, 2016 15:16:55 GMT
Fees for administration are agreed in advance as part of the appointment so that cant be it. In the case of LPA recievers its usually a percentage of realisations (3-5%), not sure with administration.
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Post by earthbound on Jun 6, 2016 15:50:01 GMT
I do not think lenders will receive anything, interest or capital well the only explanation for that would be the security/charge being invalid due to fraud ... Administrator fees DO NOT trump a first charge (or any secured loan for that matter) I may well be wrong ... but as i understand it, administrator fees are taken first from any realization, they in fact TRUMP everything. www.r3.org.uk/media/documents/publications/professional/Creditors_Administration.pdfedit <snippet> If survival of the company is not possible, but sufficient sums are realised from the sale of the company’s business and assets to enable funds to be distributed to unsecured creditors, the administrator may be able to deal with their claims and pay them a dividend, but he may only do so with the permission of the court. Otherwise, after payment of the costs and
expenses of the administration, any surplus funds
will normally be passed to a liquidator, who will
deal with creditors' claims. The administrator may himself become the liquidator
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jun 6, 2016 15:58:09 GMT
I do not think lenders will receive anything, interest or capital : In light of the above, do you think SS will survive this default?
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jun 6, 2016 16:03:41 GMT
Administrator fees DO NOT trump a first charge (or any secured loan for that matter) I may well be wrong ... but as i understand it, administrator fees are taken first from any realization, they in fact TRUMP everything. www.r3.org.uk/media/documents/publications/professional/Creditors_Administration.pdfedit <snippet> If survival of the company is not possible, but sufficient sums are realised from the sale of the company’s business and assets to enable funds to be distributed to unsecured creditors, the administrator may be able to deal with their claims and pay them a dividend, but he may only do so with the permission of the court. Otherwise, after payment of the costs and expenses of the administration, any surplus funds will normally be passed to a liquidator, who will deal with creditors' claims. The administrator may himself become the liquidator : I think you've missed a critical word in the snippet -- "unsecured". SS are a secured creditor, and I think that may mean that any proceeds from a sale of the security go first to the secured creditor. I'm no expert, so I may be wrong about this.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jun 6, 2016 16:09:16 GMT
If they were simply theories, wild or otherwise, it wouldn't be a problem, they are actually facts that are in the public domain. All of the items below are very easily verifiable facts in the public domain The freehold property was purchased for £1.475m The loan was for £1.7million "Lendy Finance Limited" (a company not registered in the UK) owns 10% of the borrower (or did at 16 August 2015) The Lendy "Bridging Loan Particulars" state a) the value is £2.43million and b)the loan represents 70% LTV The same particulars state that the site has "full planning permission for extensive redevelopment" 6 months interest was deducted from the loan (making the nett loan ££1.547million) Theories can and have been extrapolated from those facts, savingstream could comment on them but if it has exercised its mind on the subject and taken leggal advice has probably been told not to. They are not answerable to this forum but might be to the FCA if those facts are presented to them. While listing facts, I also would add the description of the borrower in the Particulars as "he". I see nothing in the Particulars that suggests that the borrower is a limited company.
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Post by earthbound on Jun 6, 2016 16:10:37 GMT
Personally i will feel much better when the old T&Cs loans are finished and gone, a few of them are now well overdue. Another default is the last thing SS would need right now.
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Post by earthbound on Jun 6, 2016 16:19:13 GMT
I may well be wrong ... but as i understand it, administrator fees are taken first from any realization, they in fact TRUMP everything. www.r3.org.uk/media/documents/publications/professional/Creditors_Administration.pdfedit <snippet> If survival of the company is not possible, but sufficient sums are realised from the sale of the company’s business and assets to enable funds to be distributed to unsecured creditors, the administrator may be able to deal with their claims and pay them a dividend, but he may only do so with the permission of the court. Otherwise, after payment of the costs and expenses of the administration, any surplus funds will normally be passed to a liquidator, who will deal with creditors' claims. The administrator may himself become the liquidator : I think you've missed a critical word in the snippet -- "unsecured". SS are a secured creditor, and I think that may mean that any proceeds from a sale of the security go first to the secured creditor. I'm no expert, so I may be wrong about this. hi mikes1531 its the same for secured and unsecured, although unsecured are further down the ladder. www.companyrescue.co.uk/directors-guides-insolvency/creditors-priorityedit.. actually they are both on the top rung , so still ambiguous 
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Post by dualinvestor on Jun 6, 2016 16:21:20 GMT
I do not think lenders will receive anything, interest or capital : In light of the above, do you think SS will survive this default? the question has a much more complex answer and there is simply no upside in me posting it, sorry.
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