locutus
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Post by locutus on Jun 6, 2016 16:48:44 GMT
I do not think lenders will receive anything, interest or capital On what basis is this opinion formed? It is a bold statement (which I disagree with) so would like to see your workings. It isn't cricket to throw a grenade like that and walk away without any explanation.
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Post by pepperpot on Jun 6, 2016 17:27:24 GMT
dualinvestor : In light of the above, do you think SS will survive this default? the question has a much more complex answer and there is simply no upside in me posting it, sorry. So that implies that there must have been an upside in posting a statement like that. The plot thickens.
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goopy
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Post by goopy on Jun 6, 2016 17:27:45 GMT
If all of the information which has come to light over the last 24 hours is reliable, and in the absence of any explanation from SS, it seems to me that this loan has been at best mismanaged and at worst,,,,,,, that's debatable. Either way it does not instill confidence in SS or the rest of their loan book.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 6, 2016 17:44:41 GMT
This is starting to get stale. All you headless chickens and conspiracy theorists... the exit is THAT way -> Don't forget to give us some notice before you list all your stuff on the SM, so we can take advantage. Thanks.  , there's a default. The second one that SS have had, out of all their loans. The last time, nobody lost a single penny. The administrators were called in last week. We have no idea what communication was going on between SS and the borrower before that point, and we have no idea what's going on with the administrator right now. The garden centre is on the market. NOBODY KNOWS ANY MORE. There is no concrete information to share. There is no point in giving regular on-the-hour-every-hour updates to say nothing's happening yet. |
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goopy
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Post by goopy on Jun 6, 2016 17:53:59 GMT
This is starting to get stale. All you headless chickens and conspiracy theorists... the exit is THAT way -> Don't forget to give us some notice before you list all your stuff on the SM, so we can take advantage. Thanks. , there's a default. The second one that SS have had, out of all their loans. The last time, nobody lost a single penny. The administrators were called in last week. We have no idea what communication was going on between SS and the borrower before that point, and we have no idea what's going on with the administrator right now. The garden centre is on the market. NOBODY KNOWS ANY MORE. There is no concrete information to share. There is no point in giving regular on-the-hour-every-hour updates to say nothing's happening yet. You're not even slightly concerned by this? There are 2 titles under the charge that Lendy Ltd has against PBL20; WSX2****5 (land adjoining T****** Nurseries) & WSX2****6 (T****** Nurseries). On the documents I downloaded, both our borrower (As Registered Owner), and Lendy Ltd (As Lender) is indicated.
The amount paid for these are as follows...
WSX2*****5
: £ 575,000
WSX2*****6
: £ 900,000
Total : £ 1,475,000
Add 12% to that total, and you get mighty close to the loan amount.
Savingstream have some questions to answer... 
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Post by dualinvestor on Jun 6, 2016 17:58:17 GMT
mikes1531 the question has a much more complex answer and there is simply no upside in me posting it, sorry. So that implies that there must have been an upside in posting a statement like that. The plot thickens. No plot, just that there would be a lot of downside 
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Post by dualinvestor on Jun 6, 2016 18:02:32 GMT
I do not think lenders will receive anything, interest or capital On what basis is this opinion formed? It is a bold statement (which I disagree with) so would like to see your workings. It isn't cricket to throw a grenade like that and walk away without any explanation. I have already said I will not elucidate, why would I when I will simply get abuse like this from adrianc? "All you headless chickens and conspiracy theorists." If this were a true discussion board populated by open minded people my view might be different but to question a platform invites the zealots to simply hurl abuse. I am going to get flamed anyway I might as well not waste my time typing a long answer.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jun 6, 2016 18:19:39 GMT
On what basis is this opinion formed? It is a bold statement (which I disagree with) so would like to see your workings. It isn't cricket to throw a grenade like that and walk away without any explanation. I have already said I will not elucidate, why would I when I will simply get abuse like this from adrianc ? "All you headless chickens and conspiracy theorists." If this were a true discussion board populated by open minded people my view might be different but to question a platform invites the zealots to simply hurl abuse. I am going to get flamed anyway I might as well not waste my time typing a long answer. : ISTM that you're throwing the baby out with the bath water. OK, some 'zealots' -- to use your word -- might think you are talking rubbish and make negative comments in response. But there are a lot of other people reading this forum -- the more open minded ones, as you put it -- who would be very interested in hearing what you have to say. So I have difficulty understanding why you're so reluctant to say anything to explain why you made your rather emphatic statement.
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littleoldlady
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Running down all platforms due to age
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Post by littleoldlady on Jun 6, 2016 18:26:59 GMT
What worries me is that dualinvestor appears to be very clued up on insolvency matters. I suspect that he may be a professional in the field. |
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 6, 2016 18:29:34 GMT
This is starting to get stale. All you headless chickens and conspiracy theorists... the exit is THAT way -> Don't forget to give us some notice before you list all your stuff on the SM, so we can take advantage. Thanks. , there's a default. The second one that SS have had, out of all their loans. The last time, nobody lost a single penny. The administrators were called in last week. We have no idea what communication was going on between SS and the borrower before that point, and we have no idea what's going on with the administrator right now. The garden centre is on the market. NOBODY KNOWS ANY MORE. There is no concrete information to share. There is no point in giving regular on-the-hour-every-hour updates to say nothing's happening yet. You're not even slightly concerned by this? There are 2 titles under the charge that Lendy Ltd has against PBL20; WSX2****5 (land adjoining T****** Nurseries) & WSX2****6 (T****** Nurseries). On the documents I downloaded, both our borrower (As Registered Owner), and Lendy Ltd (As Lender) is indicated.
The amount paid for these are as follows...
WSX2*****5
: £ 575,000
WSX2*****6
: £ 900,000
Total : £ 1,475,000
Add 12% to that total, and you get mighty close to the loan amount.
Savingstream have some questions to answer... It won't stop me sleeping happily tonight, if that's what you mean, no. Will it you? If it does, then I'm really not sure that P2P - especially a very high-interest platform like SS - is for you. Defaults are to be expected. This one has a VERY strong chance of paying back a VERY high percentage of the loan, if not everything, without even troubling the PF. If this were a true discussion board populated by open minded people my view might be different but to question a platform invites the zealots to simply hurl abuse. <cough> What was that about name calling?
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jun 6, 2016 18:52:44 GMT
Defaults are to be expected. This one has a VERY strong chance of paying back a VERY high percentage of the loan, if not everything, without even troubling the PF. I wouldn't argue that a high percentage payout is impossible -- before PF involvement -- but ISTM that a 100% payout ("everything") isn't a realistic possibility. Once there's a bit of negotiating of the £1.9M asking price, and all the professionals are paid -- receiver/administrator, estate agent, lawyers, etc. -- I don't see how there could be £1.7M left for investors. One of the big uncertainties is... who paid the interest for the 150 days after the Remaining Term went negative? If it wasn't the borrower, then the payer is owed a minimum of £85k, and while I wouldn't be surprised if repayment of that ranks higher than repayment of investor capital, I really don't have a clue.
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Jun 6, 2016 18:57:15 GMT
Administrators have been instructed by Lendy and publicly available information strongly suggests that the proceeds from the sale of the security will result in recovery of a substantial part of the loan.
Why would these proceeds not be transferred from the administrators to Lendy and then returned to investors perhaps supplemented with a top up from the provision fund?
Only if a) the administrators could not or would not transfer the funds to Lendy or b) Lendy could not or would not return the funds to investors.
Discounting administrators becoming wilful and Lendy choosing to shoot itself in the foot, only one possibility remains, that the administrators are legally bound to do something else either because i) title resides elsewhere or ii) the law has been broken or iii) something that I haven't thought of
P.S. I have no additional knowledge other than what has already been discussed here and no real understanding of these matters and I don't have an investment in this loan.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 6, 2016 19:03:59 GMT
Defaults are to be expected. This one has a VERY strong chance of paying back a VERY high percentage of the loan, if not everything, without even troubling the PF. I wouldn't argue that a high percentage payout is impossible -- before PF involvement -- but ISTM that a 100% payout ("everything") isn't a realistic possibility. Once there's a bit of negotiating of the £1.9M asking price, and all the professionals are paid -- receiver/administrator, estate agent, lawyers, etc. -- I don't see how there could be £1.7M left for investors. One of the big uncertainties is... who paid the interest for the 150 days after the Remaining Term went negative? If it wasn't the borrower, then the payer is owed a minimum of £85k, and while I wouldn't be surprised if repayment of that ranks higher than repayment of investor capital, I really don't have a clue. We don't even know if the garden centre is trading profitably - it very probably is, since the administrators are keeping it running.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Jun 6, 2016 19:13:57 GMT
This is the time of year when a garden centre should be achieving its maximum turnover and profit per day. What's the betting the administrators will shut it down after the early autumn sales, say the end of September, then save on wages etc?
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james
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Post by james on Jun 6, 2016 19:19:47 GMT
Administrator fees DO NOT trump a first charge (or any secured loan for that matter) At least for receivers prior to bankruptcy the fees appear to be secured by the properties covered by the charges. To quote from the charge document for the main property in this loan: " 13.3 Remuneration
The lender may fix the remuneration of any Receiver appointed by it without the restrictions contained in section 109 of the LPA 1925 and the remuneration of the receiver shall be a debt secured by this deed, to the extent not otherwise discharged."
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, there's a default. The second one that SS have had, out of all their loans. The last time, nobody lost a single penny. The administrators were called in last week. We have no idea what communication was going on between SS and the borrower before that point, and we have no idea what's going on with the administrator right now. The garden centre is on the market. NOBODY KNOWS ANY MORE. There is no concrete information to share. There is no point in giving regular on-the-hour-every-hour updates to say nothing's happening yet.
