stevio
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Post by stevio on Jul 3, 2016 10:55:10 GMT
I would like to invest in TC, mainly because my SIPP has limited platforms I can invest in and I would like further diversity
Is there a rough guide to the platform around anywhere?
I am reading up but had a few questions:
- the minimum balance seems to be £1000, but is that the minimum bid too? - the vast majority seem to be auction loans? How does this work, so I bid an interest rate and then the lowest bids win?
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Post by bracknellboy on Jul 3, 2016 11:50:37 GMT
I would like to invest in TC, mainly because my SIPP has limited platforms I can invest in and I would like further diversity Is there a rough guide to the platform around anywhere? I am reading up but had a few questions: - the minimum balance seems to be £1000, but is that the minimum bid too? - the vast majority seem to be auction loans? How does this work, so I bid an interest rate and then the lowest bids win? - Minimum bid size on new listings (primary market) is £1k and its £1k increments - There is however a secondary market, so with amortising loans you can pick up smaller chunks. Do be a bit careful on the SM, it operates a discount/premium scheme (a little unintuitively perhaps) but it does not take into account accrued interest in the way it auto prices. Some loans are interest roll-ups, some are qtly payments, so it is a bit of a minefield unless you know what you are doing (IMHO). - there are the TLCs - not tender loving care but thin cats lending club - loans. Consider these as pooled resources which are then used to bid into a number of loans; hence you can get greater diversification from a smaller comittment. I don't use them, and I'd be careful about picking up on the SM: some of these are into a pretty small number of loans (handful) and hence some are shall we say a touch underperforming. - Mix of auction loans and fixed rate loans. Good fixed rate loans go fast (FFF) (unless they are large). The one really good thing about the TC systems is the dynamic bidding capability. If you are going to bid on a variable rate auction then make sure you use dynamic bidding (set your rate and your lowest acceptable floor rate) rather than a static bid. The system will then adjust your bid downwards accordingly until you are kicked off because the prevailing max rate is lower than your floor. eBay in reverse. I am in constant bewilderment at those who continue to put in static bids and end up with a rate lower than they could have got. Bizarre. - once yoiu deposit money, you should get access to the TC 'second' forum: this has a welter of information and forumites who will provide guidance; there is also a members generated user manual, information maintained on TLC performance etc.
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Post by tybalt on Jul 6, 2016 6:34:26 GMT
Have a look at the User Manual. The screen shots are slightly out of date as TC have cut down on displays in order to 'speed up' processing.
www.thincats.com/resources/
For what it is worth I believe you need at least £75,000 to be sufficiently diversified on ThinCats.
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Post by lynnanthony on Jul 15, 2016 8:12:53 GMT
..
For what it is worth I believe you need at least £75,000 to be sufficiently diversified on ThinCats.
Hmm. Can't see it. Maybe if Thincats was your only platform, but I view loan diversity as spreading over multiple platforms if the loans are similar.
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Post by tybalt on Jul 15, 2016 12:27:10 GMT
Assume for the moment that actual failure rate is more like 2% and that failures tend to be near complete say 90% plus write offs. Also assume that failures are at random. Allowing for dead time between auction and draw down and early repayments 10% quoted equals 9% assume three fails in year one, and fails seem to cluster in the opening 12 months of loans.
Alternatively stomp up you £ 1,000 to join and review ThinCats Loans performance as shown on ThinCats.Net and see what 7 loans, with diversification on reinvesting, can do to your overall performance.
Taking a pessimistic view of defaults I am at 8% pre tax but I would not be on the platform with under £75,000. I can see an argument for taking diversity across all platforms but because of the minimum stake you still need a lot of money to be sufficiently diverse
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Post by lynnanthony on Jul 15, 2016 14:32:25 GMT
Assume for the moment that actual failure rate is more like 2% and that failures tend to be near complete say 90% plus write offs. Also assume that failures are at random. Allowing for dead time between auction and draw down and early repayments 10% quoted equals 9% assume three fails in year one, and fails seem to cluster in the opening 12 months of loans.
Alternatively stomp up you £ 1,000 to join and review ThinCats Loans performance as shown on ThinCats.Net and see what 7 loans, with diversification on reinvesting, can do to your overall performance.
Taking a pessimistic view of defaults I am at 8% pre tax but I would not be on the platform with under £75,000. I can see an argument for taking diversity across all platforms but because of the minimum stake you still need a lot of money to be sufficiently diverse Fair enough. I would add though that whilst one can assume that failures are random it seems to me that recoveries are not: certain types of security have far better recovery rates than others. Several failures have resulted in me altering the types of loans I invest in.
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Jul 15, 2016 16:26:38 GMT
Assume for the moment that actual failure rate is more like 2% and that failures tend to be near complete say 90% plus write offs. Also assume that failures are at random. Allowing for dead time between auction and draw down and early repayments 10% quoted equals 9% assume three fails in year one, and fails seem to cluster in the opening 12 months of loans.
Alternatively stomp up you £ 1,000 to join and review ThinCats Loans performance as shown on ThinCats.Net and see what 7 loans, with diversification on reinvesting, can do to your overall performance.
Taking a pessimistic view of defaults I am at 8% pre tax but I would not be on the platform with under £75,000. I can see an argument for taking diversity across all platforms but because of the minimum stake you still need a lot of money to be sufficiently diverse Fair enough. I would add though that whilst one can assume that failures are random it seems to me that recoveries are not: certain types of security have far better recovery rates than others. Several failures have resulted in me altering the types of loans I invest in. Altered to what?
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Jul 15, 2016 16:54:03 GMT
Fair enough. I would add though that whilst one can assume that failures are random it seems to me that recoveries are not: certain types of security have far better recovery rates than others. Several failures have resulted in me altering the types of loans I invest in. Altered to what? I have been disappointed with some of the defaults in TC, and have been burnt on several loans that supposedly had security! I am avoiding all of the "business" loans, that don't have strong security and avoiding anything finance. Energy with strong security and strong property loans, are still investible, although some the 2nd charge and low LTV property loans are still off limits. I expect that a p2p site that states that all loans are secured, to actually "talk the talk" and when loans default, I expect that members/lenders, to be able recover 50-100%; yet iv'e been in loans where the recovery rate is dire.
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Post by lynnanthony on Jul 15, 2016 17:43:06 GMT
Fair enough. I would add though that whilst one can assume that failures are random it seems to me that recoveries are not: certain types of security have far better recovery rates than others. Several failures have resulted in me altering the types of loans I invest in. Altered to what? Mainly to first charges on property of some sort, occasional 2nd charge if there is enough equity. Chattel mortgage if it looks reasonable. Away from pure debenture loans, loan books, PGs. Sounds like my experience has been similar to Liz's.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Jul 16, 2016 15:14:04 GMT
I value TC for the diversity and would like to see more loans to "real" businesses. Having said that, quality does vary and you have to be selective. I look to the business first and the security second, because experience has shown that the security can melt away. The one area where I've had my fingers burned is lend to lend, but overall I am very happy with my return.
I have been tempted into property loans on TC (perhaps because I'm not on SS) but I won't be adding more property for the time being unless the LTV is low or it has characteristics that make it a good asset in a downturn (such as a long term assured income stream).
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Post by tybalt on Jul 16, 2016 15:35:05 GMT
As above until O****, B*** & L***** I had only one default.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jul 16, 2016 16:00:35 GMT
Oh and airlines. Definitely no more airlines. D-day on Monday?
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jul 16, 2016 16:35:17 GMT
I'm not signing anything. I expect TC to keep me fully informed. I share your views. Think there are a lot of people on TC who are unhappy at there being a potentially 2 tier system whereby some have more information than others regarding what is really going on.
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Post by lynnanthony on Jul 16, 2016 17:14:26 GMT
I'm not signing anything. I expect TC to keep me fully informed. I share your views. Think there are a lot of people on TC who are unhappy at there being a potentially 2 tier system whereby some have more information than others regarding what is really going on. Playing devil's advocate, isn't it only two tier because people are choosing not to receive the offered information? Slightly analogous to not opening your mail and then complaining you didn't know what was in it?
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jul 16, 2016 19:36:17 GMT
I share your views. Think there are a lot of people on TC who are unhappy at there being a potentially 2 tier system whereby some have more information than others regarding what is really going on. isn't it only two tier because people are choosing not to receive the offered information? I think there are 2 issues: - The information is only available in real time for those who can attend / watch at the perscribed time. There does not appear to be any mechanism to receive a written transcript, or to watch a repeat at a later time.
- Access to the information is only available to those that agree to sign up to additional terms and conditions that were not made known to lenders when they signed up.
To use your post office analogy, it's a bit like a post man in Devon telling you that royal mail has a letter for you, but you have to collect it from the main sorting office in Birmingham between 10 and 11am next Thursday. And by the way, before they will give it to you, you have to sign an undertaking not to tell anyone what has happened.
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