littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Feb 2, 2017 19:19:01 GMT
I remain extremely impressed with ABLrate's handling of this default. I do not obsess about having "regular comms" when there is nothing significantly new to update. I have >50k invested and will continue to add as the handling of this difficult default has given me confidence in them. The borrower in this case is a conman and that as added to the difficulty, and delays in the court system are beyond the control of anybody. I also am not in a position to question Abl's procedures since the loan went sour. However I am very sceptical of their DD before going ahead with the loan, and IMO it is this area where questions need to be answered.
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Feb 2, 2017 21:01:49 GMT
I remain extremely impressed with ABLrate's handling of this default. I do not obsess about having "regular comms" when there is nothing significantly new to update. Agreed. My only caveat is that if an update has been stated to be issued on date X, one should be. Even if it's a placeholder with 'don't know much, awaiting details from xyz who we are chasing, will update in 48hrs' type information. Beyond that, this is by far my largest potential loss to date, so I'm learning more about the process and a little about myself in this scenario. one point from the email is that Abl are putting these loans into the 'can be offset against tax' bucket. As I understand loans in that scenario should be included by the platform directly within their end of year tax statement and details to hmrc, can I ask if these loans will be treated that way?
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james
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Post by james on Feb 3, 2017 17:30:01 GMT
one point from the email is that Abl are putting these loans into the 'can be offset against tax' bucket. As I understand loans in that scenario should be included by the platform directly within their end of year tax statement and details to hmrc, can I ask if these loans will be treated that way? It's worth reading at least the first two pages of P2P Bad Debt Relief Post Publication of final guidance, with some niceties discussed on page two. The provision being relied upon will be the one for when to treat something as irrecoverable even though it is not believed to be irrecoverable, s412A(8) " In this section 'irrecoverable' means irrecoverable other than by legal proceedings or by the exercise of any right granted by way of security for the loan". In the facts at hand there are two loans and it appears that the circumstances for them are: 1. The borrowing firm properly took ownership and then either firm, director or both sold the security without releasing the security by repaying. 2. The borrowing firm or a director seems to have sold the goods that were to be the security without ownership of them ever passing to them. Both loans have been declared in default by the platform, significant legal action has already been taken, a winding up order for the borrowing firm is in progress and assorted other claims seem likely, as described in the emails. Beyond that my view is that the platform should be determining whether these loans are within s423A(8) but if a platform doesn't make a determination HMRCs guidance is clear that you can. In the case of loan 2 I don't think that a right granted by security is the appropriate legal classification assuming I'm correct that ownership never passed. Since loan 2 is the only one I still held at the time a default was declared I currently plan to make the deduction. Don't make the mistake of thinking that it's simple, though. I knew I wasn't asking a simple question when I earlier asked Ablrate about this.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Feb 3, 2017 17:34:39 GMT
I try to make it simple by reporting the same figure that the platform reports.
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blender
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Post by blender on Feb 3, 2017 17:46:54 GMT
"The provision being relied upon will be the one for when to treat something as recoverable even though it is not believed to be irrecoverable"
Definitely not a simple distinction, James.
But what is simple is surely that if Ablrate say they are placing it in the 'can be offset against [income] tax bucket', that will be what they report to HMRC. Which is all Jonah was asking.
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james
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Post by james on Feb 3, 2017 18:06:56 GMT
"The provision being relied upon will be the one for when to treat something as recoverable even though it is not believed to be irrecoverable" I've fixed the word recoverable there to irrecoverable, thanks. Definitely not a simple distinction, James.
But what is simple is surely that if Ablrate say they are placing it in the 'can be offset against [income] tax bucket', that will be what they report to HMRC. Which is all Jonah was asking. Well, Ablrate seemed to say in their email that they would not be saying, "you may be able", so it's up to us and I don't expect them to go further here. Abl are putting these loans into the 'can be offset against tax' bucket. That wasn't a correct assertion. They addressed two factual matters - yes, it's in default and yes it's irrecoverable without legal proceedings - but didn't express a final view on the security aspects that are not trivial. That is, I asked: Please confirm that it is ablrate view that the C*** container loans which are involved are: 1. Defaulted 2. Irrecoverable without legal action 3. And hence can have their capital deducted from interest for the 2016-17 tax year if there is not recovery before 6 April 2017, per the process for P2P bad debt relief and they confirmed the first two but ducked the third. Even the holders of the two loans may be in different semi-final positions, depending on the differences in recovery of security for each and effectiveness of Ablrate combining them, perhaps best left as a discussion for another time should it matter. Only semi-final because the combining if recovery differs might be a matter of dispute. Though you might notice that I now ask Ablrate whether losses can be combined with those for any other loans involving the same borrower or middleman.
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Feb 3, 2017 19:10:02 GMT
Thank you james, helpful and detailed as always. I have a slightly different question (or will on the 7th of April*)....What have you / are you about to tell HMRC for myself? If I know this and my interest received has been reduced compared to what I believe it should be, then I know that Abl have decided this loan meets those criteria and I can follow suit. This question especially applicable in my circumstances, as* I have enough in this case to offset all of the interest I have earned on this platform this year and therefore need to ensure that I don't have a wildly different number to make HMRC unhappy and potentially one which I can use against interest from other platforms. * assuming that this isn't all nicely wrapped up in the next 2 and a bit months and all capital / interest repaid, which would be even better. Feels unrealistic though.
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iren
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Post by iren on Apr 26, 2017 13:17:50 GMT
The last email I had on this was 16 December, regarding the appointment of a law firm to manage Ablrate's position, and the fate of the borrower company to be determined (whether to be wound up). Have I missed anything?
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Post by oktaeder on Apr 29, 2017 12:16:05 GMT
Nice update came in today. I guess button pressed too early this time.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Apr 29, 2017 13:55:30 GMT
He hasn't sent me any kisses!
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Apr 29, 2017 15:27:50 GMT
Nice update came in today. I guess button pressed too early this time. Anything material? My inbox seems empty.
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mickj
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Post by mickj on Apr 29, 2017 15:38:40 GMT
Empty inbox here, no kisses and not expecting any info until end of May, perhaps I am missing something.........
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Post by oktaeder on Apr 29, 2017 20:54:15 GMT
No there was nothing but the envelope itself. And the subject 'Ablrate C******m Update'.
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Apr 30, 2017 10:23:03 GMT
No there was nothing but the envelope itself. And the subject 'Ablrate C******m Update'. Isn't that what an empty container should be like?
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mikeh
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Post by mikeh on Apr 30, 2017 10:30:19 GMT
No there was nothing but the envelope itself. And the subject 'Ablrate C******m Update'. Well they say it's the thought that counts.
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