stevio
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Post by stevio on Sept 2, 2016 10:04:14 GMT
It seems some platforms take interest payments upfront, which seems a safer alternative to monthly or at the end. I think this might have been answered in various different threads, but wondering if some knowledgeable person might know for the following platforms, when interest payments are taken: SS FS MT AB CO Thanks! PS - If others want to ask for different platforms, feel free ablrate ablrateandy MoneyThing fundingsecure savingstream collateral Collateral Rep
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Post by MoneyThing on Sept 2, 2016 18:28:27 GMT
It seems some platforms take interest payments upfront, which seems a safer alternative to monthly or at the end. I think this might have been answered in various different threads, but wondering if some knowledgeable person might know for the following platforms, when interest payments are taken: SS FS MT AB CO Thanks! PS - If others want to ask for different platforms, feel free ablrate ablrateandy MoneyThing fundingsecure savingstream collateral Collateral Rep I'm afraid I'm going to have to say ... it depends Depending on the LTV, the security, the term, the asset type and borrower profile we may a) deduct some/all interest at drawdown, b) interest serviced monthly or c) payable at loan term (i.e. rolled-up). Admittedly the latter is least common. Regards, Ed.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Sept 2, 2016 18:34:22 GMT
It seems some platforms take interest payments upfront, which seems a safer alternative to monthly or at the end. I think this might have been answered in various different threads, but wondering if some knowledgeable person might know for the following platforms, when interest payments are taken: SS FS MT AB CO Thanks! PS - If others want to ask for different platforms, feel free ablrate ablrateandy MoneyThing fundingsecure savingstream collateral Collateral Rep FS is paid at term by borrower on redemption renewal Collateral advance interest as part of loan and retain it at launch, no idea about renewals yet SS same as Collateral, extensions are either retained interest paid up front or serviced monthly
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Sept 5, 2016 18:12:24 GMT
Thanks
AB I presume is monthly?
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Post by ablrateandy on Sept 6, 2016 22:04:05 GMT
Ablrate is paid to us monthly by the borrower normally.
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DeafEater
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Post by DeafEater on Dec 11, 2016 14:23:52 GMT
I'm afraid I'm going to have to say ... it depends Depending on the LTV, the security, the term, the asset type and borrower profile we may a) deduct some/all interest at drawdown, b) interest serviced monthly or c) payable at loan term (i.e. rolled-up). Admittedly the latter is least common. Regards, Ed. I was linked to this thread courtesy of ilmoro who was answering a newbie question but I have to say I was rather alarmed by Ed's response to the interest question. The vast majority of the MT loans pay monthly interest so I'm particularly interested in whether the borrower is paying that interest or whether MT is paying it on their behalf, having deducted it all up front from the capital sum. Ed lists five things as affecting where the monthly interest comes from and certainly if the loan is to facilitate building a property that will then be sold, I can see that unless the borrower has other income they can pay the interest out of, it makes sense for MT to deduct the interest up front and drip-feed it back to the investors. Assuming the build and sale is successful, the investors get their capital back and everyone ends up with a slice of the pie. However another reason MT might deduct the interest up front is because they don't trust the borrower enough to cough up each month when the interest is due. This is of great interest to investors - especially if MT later allows the borrower to renew the loan rather than repay it because investors might be much less inclined to stay in it if they were fully informed over what was going on with the interest. On specific borrowers, I have yet to see an AE loan repay - they all seem to renew and they take out new loans fairly regularly. I have no idea whether MT or AE are paying the interest on these loans but if it turned out to be MT, I think that would push my nervousness over its 'sell threshold' and I'd dump them in favour of something less obviously frightening. Does anyone else have concerns about MT sometimes paying the interest rather than the borrower so we don't have any idea whether a loan is likely to go bad until it matures?
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Post by MoneyThing on Dec 11, 2016 15:06:49 GMT
I'm afraid I'm going to have to say ... it depends Depending on the LTV, the security, the term, the asset type and borrower profile we may a) deduct some/all interest at drawdown, b) interest serviced monthly or c) payable at loan term (i.e. rolled-up). Admittedly the latter is least common. Regards, Ed. I was linked to this thread courtesy of ilmoro who was answering a newbie question but I have to say I was rather alarmed by Ed's response to the interest question. The vast majority of the MT loans pay monthly interest so I'm particularly interested in whether the borrower is paying that interest or whether MT is paying it on their behalf, having deducted it all up front from the capital sum. Ed lists five things as affecting where the monthly interest comes from and certainly if the loan is to facilitate building a property that will then be sold, I can see that unless the borrower has other income they can pay the interest out of, it makes sense for MT to deduct the interest up front and drip-feed it back to the investors. Assuming the build and sale is successful, the investors get their capital back and everyone ends up with a slice of the pie. However another reason MT might deduct the interest up front is because they don't trust the borrower enough to cough up each month when the interest is due. This is of great interest to investors - especially if MT later allows the borrower to renew the loan rather than repay it because investors might be much less inclined to stay in it if they were fully informed over what was going on with the interest. On specific borrowers, I have yet to see an AE loan repay - they all seem to renew and they take out new loans fairly regularly. I have no idea whether MT or AE are paying the interest on these loans but if it turned out to be MT, I think that would push my nervousness over its 'sell threshold' and I'd dump them in favour of something less obviously frightening. Does anyone else have concerns about MT sometimes paying the interest rather than the borrower so we don't have any idea whether a loan is likely to go bad until it matures? Afternoon, Just a quick note on the fly... the vast majority of our loans, the borrower services the interest monthly which is our preference as it allows us to maintain more regular communication and closer monitoring with the borrower during the loan term (inc. all CS & AE loans). The only loans that are term are those of a direct pawn nature, such as the art and classic cars. Just a reminder on the AE loans, these are agreements written on an open ended basis (with a notice period to terminate which can be initiated by either party). We have implanted the 6 month term as basically bi-annual breaks for lenders. As a growing business, which we are happy to support, there is no reason for them to repay any of the loans at this time. Kind regards, Ed
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DeafEater
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Post by DeafEater on Dec 11, 2016 18:06:38 GMT
Thanks Ed. It's reassuring to know that the borrower is paying the monthly interest on the 'vast majority' of your loans. Your original post stated only that interest plus capital being paid at the end was unusual (which we knew) but consequently rather implied that the other two options were if not equally common, then certainly both fairly common. I am glad to hear this is not the case. I don't pay very much attention to the theoretical LTV on the AE loans because at 80% it's sailing pretty close to the wind and gets worse as soon as their customer drives the asset away. We are effectively reliant on the AE customer loans performing to get our money back and whereas I know that AE have undertaken to swap out any asset where the customer loan comes a cropper, doing so must cost them money and if it happens a lot, will affect their ability to pay back the MT loans. Do you have any figures for what percentage of the AE customer loans go South and hence what percentage provide AE with the expected income or does AE keep this information to themselves? I know that the knowledgeable james has said elsewhere in these pages that he rather likes the AE loans so I'm probably being unduly nervous but it would be reassuring if once in a while they paid one back rather than renewing it as it would imply their cash flow was improving.
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Post by MoneyThing on Dec 11, 2016 18:21:42 GMT
Thanks Ed. It's reassuring to know that the borrower is paying the monthly interest on the 'vast majority' of your loans. Your original post stated only that interest plus capital being paid at the end was unusual (which we knew) but consequently rather implied that the other two options were if not equally common, then certainly both fairly common. I am glad to hear this is not the case. I don't pay very much attention to the theoretical LTV on the AE loans because at 80% it's sailing pretty close to the wind and gets worse as soon as their customer drives the asset away. We are effectively reliant on the AE customer loans performing to get our money back and whereas I know that AE have undertaken to swap out any asset where the customer loan comes a cropper, doing so must cost them money and if it happens a lot, will affect their ability to pay back the MT loans. Do you have any figures for what percentage of the AE customer loans go South and hence what percentage provide AE with the expected income or does AE keep this information to themselves? I know that the knowledgeable james has said elsewhere in these pages that he rather likes the AE loans so I'm probably being unduly nervous but it would be reassuring if once in a while they paid one back rather than renewing it as it would imply their cash flow was improving. Acknowledged. I maybe wrong, but I thought we published/posted details of their borrower default rates (or perhaps it was general rates of default in the market they service). Will have a look when I am at my PC rather than my mobile. However, I know that whenever their borrower defaults, they simply collect the car, check it over, perform checks on the vehicle and then undertake maintenance/repairs if necessary and then simply put it out again for retail. Regards, Ed
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james
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Post by james on Dec 11, 2016 20:49:14 GMT
I know that the knowledgeable james has said elsewhere in these pages that he rather likes the AE loans so I'm probably being unduly nervous but it would be reassuring if once in a while they paid one back rather than renewing it as it would imply their cash flow was improving. Personally I'd rather see them keep the money if they anticipate using it within a month or three. It'd just irritate the lenders in the loan. They are a growing capital-intensive business so they are going to continue to need capital to grow until they reach borrower saturation level. No rule says that my opinion is right, so please never rely just on my opinion, yours is more important. I like the loans - and indeed almost everything about MoneyThing itself - but I could still be wrong and still pay attention to how much concentration I have with any one borrower compared to total assets. I'll go to higher concentration than many but the limits are still there because I know that I could be wrong. Or right and subject to some misfortune with the borrower.
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