adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Sept 8, 2016 17:24:19 GMT
Nothing is available at this minute, except for just one loan, which is in default. And even then only 107K is available. Wow! Only about £75k of that is "real" lender-listed sale - the rest is SS's. Somebody bought a £4k chunk today...
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Jeepers
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Post by Jeepers on Sept 8, 2016 17:26:51 GMT
What's wrong with the fields please? What's right with them? IMO it's the size of the loan which means the PF probably wouldn't be sufficient to cover any shortfall.
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Post by mrclondon on Sept 8, 2016 17:43:38 GMT
The ones I am avoiding are
131 - Hull land, not convinced that Hull can support any additional retail developments; land prone to flooding
106 - Fife Industrial Estate, not convinced by the valuation in fire sale conditions
103 - Hastings dev land, awkward plot to develop plus uncertain demand for finished apartments
097 - Thames moorings, 2nd charge, uncertain of past planning consents
081 - Surrey house, uncertain valuation given the recent history
042 - boat sheds, unable to quantify any planning restrictions due to historical site
020 - Garden centre, not clear extent currently accruing interest will be covered
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Sept 8, 2016 18:02:00 GMT
As a rule I avoid:
Loans with less than 60 days commercial Dev. land 2nd charges London Scotland High LTV(90 day)
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jamesc
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Post by jamesc on Sept 8, 2016 18:54:29 GMT
As a rule I avoid: Loans with less than 60 days commercial Dev. land 2nd charges London Scotland High LTV(90 day) So basically most loans !
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Post by turtle on Sept 8, 2016 19:13:18 GMT
Now that the SM is bare again, bearing in mind all that is known, remaining times etc, which loans do you think are the weakest? Which would you trim if you were holding plenty? It does depends what you mean by 'weakest'. > Would you consider a loan with weak security but a strong exit plan as weak? > Would you consider a loan that looks likely to default but has strong security as week? > Or (as I think too many do) do you simply view any loan below xx term as weak? I believe that it should be a combination of all three, but I have seen some discussion here recently that suggest some investors simply sell when it reaches xx term. There will be some fingers burned if they continue to use this strategy (JMHO). Why do you think that? (just wondering)
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Post by snappyfish on Sept 8, 2016 19:14:22 GMT
Blimey, some peoples weakest are my most invested But also why the sudden drought.
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puffin
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Post by puffin on Sept 8, 2016 19:24:24 GMT
Blimey, some peoples weakest are my most invested But also why the sudden drought. A drought because, quite a lot of recent repayments, hence money about looking to be invested somewhere.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Sept 8, 2016 19:26:56 GMT
Blimey, some peoples weakest are my most invested But also why the sudden drought. /mod hat off Because, as someone said upstream, ~£10m got paid back, and there was nothing else to spend it on. The MT cupboard is also bare, and IIRC ABL has had no new loans for a while, so there is a lot of money chasing few borrowers. Personally I'd rather have it sat as cash than stick it into some of the dregs, but other people seem to lack patience, or caution, or whatever it is that stops me investing in the first thing with actual availability, regardless of how feeble it looks (my ideas of feeble are rather like mrclondon 's ideas, plus a few where the valuation seems to be rather adrift from the last known selling price, with no visible means of support, and a couple of others where the history of the borrower raises eyebrows, if not actual hackles.)
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Sept 8, 2016 19:30:18 GMT
It does depends what you mean by 'weakest'. > Would you consider a loan with weak security but a strong exit plan as weak? > Would you consider a loan that looks likely to default but has strong security as week? > Or (as I think too many do) do you simply view any loan below xx term as weak? I believe that it should be a combination of all three, but I have seen some discussion here recently that suggest some investors simply sell when it reaches xx term. There will be some fingers burned if they continue to use this strategy (JMHO). Why do you think that? (just wondering) As discussed on another thread, a loan can default within its term. Besides this, for a number of reasons the SM can suddenly loose its liquidity. Neither of the above scenarios is going to be problem for investors if the security is sound .
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am
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Post by am on Sept 8, 2016 19:37:31 GMT
What's wrong with the fields please? 1) I expect that the property doesn't generate enough income to service the loan. (But I was surprised to find an RSPB owned farm in Norfolk generating returns of around 10%, so it may not be quite as bad I was expecting.) 2) The valuation seemed rather stretched (£12,000 per acre, when a conservative valuation for agricultural land would be £8,000 per acre, but there are some buildings present which will add to the value). I didn't think the valuation ridiculous, but I was concerned that (excluding hope value) it was optimistic. 3) The only short-term exit strategy is refinance at a more sustainable rate. (There's reason to suspect that it is being at least partly refinanced by equity.) So, basically we are dependent on the borrower successfully finding another source of finance. (A look on the web for indicative agricultural mortgage rates is coming up blank - the providers don't seem keen on publishing their rates.) After the partial repayment and extension (if they happen) they become a better deal. Perhaps that's why it's disappeared from the secondary market.
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puffin
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Post by puffin on Sept 8, 2016 19:39:21 GMT
This is my decline list. Can't tell you why, I don't keep records of that (and I haven't looked at every loan): PBL027 Decline PBL033 Decline PBL035 Decline PBL047 Decline PBL064 Decline PBL081 Decline PBL088 Decline PBL104 Decline Surprised PBL 20 isnt on that list! 😁 I kinda feel PBL020 is better then a few on the list. I somewhat agree with this PBL020 poll and the two most selected options. What's wrong with the fields please? Not a great deal 'wrong' imo. The total amount might become an issue (if it should fall) as the four assets are clearly linked, in effect being one massive loan, so I stake it accordingly. Personally, my preference is to diversify with Kelly staking, which includes working out a probability of losing, so for some assets I reduce the staking based on how desirable/risky I see it.
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nick
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Post by nick on Sept 8, 2016 21:34:13 GMT
Now that the SM is bare again, bearing in mind all that is known, remaining times etc, which loans do you think are the weakest? Which would you trim if you were holding plenty? It does depends what you mean by 'weakest'. > Would you consider a loan with weak security but a strong exit plan as weak? > Would you consider a loan that looks likely to default but has strong security as week? > Or (as I think too many do) do you simply view any loan below xx term as weak? I believe that it should be a combination of all three, but I have seen some discussion here recently that suggest some investors simply sell when it reaches xx term. There will be some fingers burned if they continue to use this strategy (JMHO). 1. The value and quality of the security is my number one measure. Lower LTV is good, but also the reliability of the value, e.g. lending against a bog standard buy-to-let house will always trump a development project as the potential haircut in a distressed sale scenario will be significantly higher for the later. I also try to avoid any specialist properties (eg holiday parks ring a bell) due to a limited market and thus higher risk of suffering a larger haircut in realisable value in the event of default. The difference between the market value and 90/180 day valuation can give a good indication of the reliability of the valuation figure. 2. A close number 2 is if there are circumstances which make the loan more likely to default. This is usually due to a change in valuation of the asset, eg failed planning permission etc etc, otherwise refinancing wouldn't be an issue and hence the value and quality of the security ranks ahead. 3. A distant third is remaining loan term. I really only view remaining loan term as a liquidity risk, ie loans will tend to be less liquid in the SM as it approaches maturity - not too much of issue for me as my money on SS is a long term allocation (although it always nice to know you can pull your money out sooner rather than later should you need it). There is also higher reinvestment risk if loans are left to maturity or repay early as there may not be other investment opportunities at the precise time of repayment. I think it is dangerous to assume that SM liquidity will always be there or discount the possibility of some disruption/termination of the SM altogether for a left field regulatory/legal reason. Therefore my base assumption is that I will hold loans to maturity and make sure I'm comfortable with the security. Maturity is a secondary consideration when considering how to reduce reinvestment risk when loans approach maturity to minimise cash drag.
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Post by jonboy73 on Sept 9, 2016 5:30:26 GMT
Blimey, some peoples weakest are my most invested But also why the sudden drought. A drought because, quite a lot of recent repayments, hence money about looking to be invested somewhere. I'm surprised more of that money hasn't made its way to FS, plenty of loans available at 13+% and one with 1% cashback on top...
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Post by chrisj on Sept 9, 2016 6:58:01 GMT
How does one know if money on the SM is real peoples loans or if it is SS dump.
Thanks.
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