SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Sept 10, 2016 16:36:38 GMT
I think many overlook the fact that this is one of the biggest loans SS have funded (only DFL004 is bigger) but it was only ever 6 months term. Hence inevitably plenty of lenders looked to reduce their stakes after just 3 or 4 months and others, somewhat sheep-like, assumed that sustained SM availability suggested hidden problems. The "re-zoning" comment probably added fuel to the fire.
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Post by dualinvestor on Sept 10, 2016 16:41:34 GMT
Maybe I've missed it, but what has occurred to bring into question the original valuation? There has been a slight softening in agri land prices during in H1 2016, but nothing to be overly concerned with. I'm not an expert in agri land, but I would have expected it to be a more commoditised market than residential or commercial property given its more standardised nature and less prone to significant variations in price from one example to another - maybe this is too simplistic. Regardless, I still can't see what has prompted the second guessing of the Feb 16 surveyor value? Agricultural land is the same as any other land and can have a bubble just like any other land. According to Savills it grew by 277% in the 10 years to 2014, so 12 years ago the average price was less than £3,000 per acre. Since Brexit the Government has only committed to continue the same level of agricultural subsidies as the EU until 2020 and no-one knows what will happen thereafter. These "facts" do not necessarily pressage a fall but they are not a basis for complacency either. The thread is about what loans are the weakest and a few lenders believe this one is amongst them. Edit the February 2016 valuation was four months before the EU referendum
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Post by chrisj on Sept 11, 2016 7:56:18 GMT
It is really difficult to understand what goes on with the secondary market on SS. Here we are discussing the farms as being one of the weakest overdue loans yet not a penny up for grabs. I would love to talk to people that invested after they went overdue. I seem to remember there being over £100K up for a while and it took me about 12 hours to get mine sold thru a £50K queue. Surely it cant be down to the fact that people have money to invest and there is nothing else to invest in...
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Post by dualinvestor on Sept 11, 2016 8:02:49 GMT
It is really difficult to understand what goes on with the secondary market on SS. Here we are discussing the farms as being one of the weakest overdue loans yet not a penny up for grabs. I would love to talk to people that invested after they went overdue. I seem to remember there being over £100K up for a while and it took me about 12 hours to get mine sold thru a £50K queue. Surely it cant be down to the fact that people have money to invest and there is nothing else to invest in... I suspect it is just that, there have been some very heavy redemptions since the start of September and new loans have been comparitively small in value, leaving just the SM for people who have not withdrawn their money and/or new investors. A lot of people are either content with the risk of these loans or oblivious to it. Furthermore they seem incapable of doing the most difficult thing in investing, do nothing.
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Sept 11, 2016 10:27:41 GMT
It is really difficult to understand what goes on with the secondary market on SS. Here we are discussing the farms as being one of the weakest overdue loans yet not a penny up for grabs. I would love to talk to people that invested after they went overdue. I seem to remember there being over £100K up for a while and it took me about 12 hours to get mine sold thru a £50K queue. Surely it cant be down to the fact that people have money to invest and there is nothing else to invest in... If you believe the PF is bullet proof you would. No I don't hold any negative loans, oh apart from PBl 20, I hold 1p. Most members must believe in the PF to some extent, because higher rates are on offer at FS & TC, to name 2. Then again the SM isn't great on those 2 sites.
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Post by martin44 on Sept 11, 2016 12:21:24 GMT
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ramblin rose
Member of DD Central
“Some people grumble that roses have thorns; I am grateful that thorns have roses.” — Alphonse Karr
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Post by ramblin rose on Sept 11, 2016 15:56:56 GMT
It is really difficult to understand what goes on with the secondary market on SS. Here we are discussing the farms as being one of the weakest overdue loans yet not a penny up for grabs. I would love to talk to people that invested after they went overdue. I seem to remember there being over £100K up for a while and it took me about 12 hours to get mine sold thru a £50K queue. Surely it cant be down to the fact that people have money to invest and there is nothing else to invest in... There was an update 6 days ago from SS saying that the loan is going to be reduced and then renewed for a further 6 months - that will have also had a lot to do with it.
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Post by martin44 on Sept 11, 2016 18:57:27 GMT
It is really difficult to understand what goes on with the secondary market on SS. Here we are discussing the farms as being one of the weakest overdue loans yet not a penny up for grabs. I would love to talk to people that invested after they went overdue. I seem to remember there being over £100K up for a while and it took me about 12 hours to get mine sold thru a £50K queue. Surely it cant be down to the fact that people have money to invest and there is nothing else to invest in... I suspect it is just that, there have been some very heavy redemptions since the start of September and new loans have been comparitively small in value, leaving just the SM for people who have not withdrawn their money and/or new investors. A lot of people are either content with the risk of these loans or oblivious to it. Furthermore they seem incapable of doing the most difficult thing in investing, do nothing.This is without doubt a difficult aspect to overcome, I regularly find myself on the SM contemplating buying into 30 days remaining loans, purely because i have non earning funds sat in my account and not earning . I have to regularly remind myself , quality not quantity, i made a post a few weeks ago about a change of strategy i was considering, and still considering, but at the moment i'm not sure it is possible to achieve, But so far, i have stuck to your comment above, and done nothing. By that i mean not literally nothing, but being far more selective on the SM, which is not easy, and extremely time consuming.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Sept 16, 2016 8:53:28 GMT
Veering to another corner of the SS portfolio, I haven't been comfortable with the PBL's 37,38,39 + 69, 70,71 since the borrower's (well actually the borrower's husband I think) past came to light. There is thread here somewhere about it, but also easily google-able if you search for the linking name of the properties.
Further to that, the SS general update at the end of July indicated repayment for all of these loans "within a couple of weeks". Six weeks later, we're told repayment is 'imminent'. Appreciate they're far from alone in that respect, and August is a difficult time etc etc. Nonetheless, I'm out of those, but hoping I'm wrong as would imagine 6 PBL's and £3.5m of loan going wrong wouldn't be great for general liquidity.
PS - notwithstanding the loans, I did like the video of our borrower ('s husband) ejecting a well known 90's music artist mid-performance due to him not putting enough effort in - great stuff!
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Post by westonkevRS on Sept 16, 2016 18:51:40 GMT
Veering to another corner of the SS portfolio, I haven't been comfortable with the PBL's 37,38,39 + 69, 70,71 since the borrower's (well actually the borrower's husband I think) past came to light. There is thread here somewhere about it, but also easily google-able if you search for the linking name of the properties. Further to that, the SS general update at the end of July indicated repayment for all of these loans "within a couple of weeks". Six weeks later, we're told repayment is 'imminent'. Appreciate they're far from alone in that respect, and August is a difficult time etc etc. Nonetheless, I'm out of those, but hoping I'm wrong as would imagine 6 PBL's and £3.5m of loan going wrong wouldn't be great for general liquidity. Is this borrower allowed to pay back Saving Stream if the individual have just recently been declared bankrupt in August 2016? Perhaps the difference between the borrower as a company (?) And the individual bankrupt allows payment of Saving Stream loans? I just thought it would take longer to agree a schedule across all creditors. But as the payment is " imminent", I suppose we'll find out soon enough Kevin.
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Post by trentenders on Sept 16, 2016 18:57:56 GMT
Waiting for the SM to quickly fill up....
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Post by dualinvestor on Sept 16, 2016 19:00:17 GMT
Veering to another corner of the SS portfolio, I haven't been comfortable with the PBL's 37,38,39 + 69, 70,71 since the borrower's (well actually the borrower's husband I think) past came to light. There is thread here somewhere about it, but also easily google-able if you search for the linking name of the properties. Further to that, the SS general update at the end of July indicated repayment for all of these loans "within a couple of weeks". Six weeks later, we're told repayment is 'imminent'. Appreciate they're far from alone in that respect, and August is a difficult time etc etc. Nonetheless, I'm out of those, but hoping I'm wrong as would imagine 6 PBL's and £3.5m of loan going wrong wouldn't be great for general liquidity. Is this borrower allowed to pay back Saving Stream if the individual have just recently been declared bankrupt in August 2016? Perhaps the difference between the borrower as a company (?) And the individual bankrupt allows payment of Saving Stream loans? I just thought it would take longer to agree a schedule across all creditors. But as the payment is " imminent", I suppose we'll find out soon enough Kevin. The borrower on most SS loans is a company, if the bankrupt was a director of the borrower they will have automatically ceased to be a director on the date of their bankrutcy order, by operation of law. Unless they were a guarantor of the loan legally nothing has changed SS still have a debtor and a charge. Practically however there are 101 other things that could come out of the mire, e.g. the borrower was guarantor, the company was a shell for him/her, they were integral to the company's ability to repay etc etc. As I recall SS are expecting payment imminently (as they are on so many loans for so many weeks) only time will tell if their optimism is justified.
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Post by westonkevRS on Sept 16, 2016 19:42:41 GMT
On further inspection, the bankrupt was the sole Director of the borrowing company. She resigned in July 2016 one month before her bankruptcy, to be replaced by a new Director.
I'm unsure his part in all this, but I suppose if she was not a guarantor then the company is free to pay back the loans, or sell the properties to pay back the loans. Although the company accounts are overdue according to Companies House, they were due by 25 January 2016
Kevin.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Sept 16, 2016 20:37:06 GMT
As I recall SS are expecting payment imminently (as they are on so many loans for so many weeks) only time will tell if their optimism is justified. 'Imminently' was from last week's updates. This week it's '22nd Sept'. (Except PBL037 and PBL069, where this week's update is silent.)
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sam i am
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Post by sam i am on Sept 17, 2016 9:19:29 GMT
I think many overlook the fact that this is one of the biggest loans SS have funded (only DFL004 is bigger) but it was only ever 6 months term. Hence inevitably plenty of lenders looked to reduce their stakes after just 3 or 4 months and others, somewhat sheep-like, assumed that sustained SM availability suggested hidden problems. The "re-zoning" comment probably added fuel to the fire. A bit of a delayed reply - sorry I'm not keeping up. While you are almost certainly correct that this was only ever a 6 month term, that's not what the loan was presented as at launch. We were told that it was 12 months and then SS 'corrected' the value to 6 months shortly afterwards. IIRC this is what precipitated the first round of SM activity.
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