oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Oct 13, 2016 14:35:18 GMT
I have already started my wind down along with many others. You can blindly accept all the bull that they throw out but some of us do read between the lines. I doubt very much if SS will change their criteria for loans. we will continue to see the same rubbish with the good. Always the cynic... Bear in mind there are probably reasons for cynicism ... SS needs to ascertain what they are. (How's PBL 064 shaping up, by the way? Vic behaving?)
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jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Oct 13, 2016 15:09:40 GMT
I must admit I'm struggling to grasp some of the contradictions here. How, on the one hand can people complain about reduced rates, then in the next breath complain about the "  " that's on offer at 12% that they wouldn't touch with a bargepole? Surely these are the very people who should welcome a reduced rate if (and I admit this is the big IF) it results in a better quality of loan. I invest on other platforms at differing rates without too much hassle, but of course SS has offered exclusively at 12% for a long time now and its becoming harder to maintain a level of investment due to the smaller allocations. So overall I would cautiously welcome this but it will depend on what "even higher quality" actually looks like. |
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Post by supernumerary on Oct 13, 2016 15:16:38 GMT
From my own perspective I would like all the loans to still be at 1% per month, 12 % per year... 
As it is a competitive market place and Saving Stream are having to turn away business because they can't match their competitors, then at least investors will have a choice of whether to invest or not in these lower interest rate loans.
I am sure that Saving Stream will do their best for us lenders who are investing in the Saving Stream platform and that there will still be new 12% loans coming on stream. However, in the future, there will be some loans at lower rates for some of the loans.
I have always been selective about the loans I have invested in any way, so I now have another variable to consider, when evaluating whether to invest or not. 
I respect those posters on here, who are questioning the 'thin end of the wedge' approach, for a slow but gradual reduction in rates on the platform, but IMHO, customer resistance will prevail to stop that, due to the competitiveness of other platforms attracting good rates to lenders...
So Saving Stream will have to be mindful of that!
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Bagman
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Post by Bagman on Oct 13, 2016 15:21:02 GMT
dandy Welcome to the think-pot 
"...we will now be left with just the wurst loans for our 12%...."
German sausage factory BTL (Buy The Lunch) loan ?? Yum yum .. 
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moist
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Post by moist on Oct 13, 2016 15:27:58 GMT
well I'm still happy.......
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Post by meledor on Oct 13, 2016 15:29:14 GMT
Bear in mind there are probably reasons for cynicism ... SS needs to ascertain what they are. (How's PBL 064 shaping up, by the way? Vic behaving?) You seem to be saying that a significant number of loans are not highly regarded. But such a comment is not in accord with the fact that there are no available loans on the secondary market (except the one that is in default). Why is it that if these loans you refer to are so poorly regarded they are not up for sale?
You make a reference to PBL064 which again does not allow for the fact that there have been opinions different to your own. For instance:
"I am astounded that people are prepared to sacrifice the interest on their loan parts by attempting to sell this loan at the present time. It may take some time for new tenants to be found, but the quality of the building and the office accomodation (which is not as some have implied on here just a tin shed) and its location close to the M5 means it won't be an impossible mission."
p2pindependentforum.com/thread/3521/tenanted-office-block-somerset?page=15
We will each have our own views on a loan yet it seems strange to me that one or two have already decided that they will not like future loans before they have even seen the details. That is their choice but I cannot see what it has got to do with SS - "SS needs to ascertain what they are".
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Post by supernumerary on Oct 13, 2016 15:32:11 GMT
In that case, I guess you'll be taking your money elsewhere. That will show them. How dare they offer lenders only 10% or 11% interest?! I have already started my wind down along with many others. You can blindly accept all the bull that they throw out but some of us do read between the lines. I doubt very much if SS will change their criteria for loans. we will continue to see the same rubbish with the good. Jaydee, so where are you heading for instead? What has caught your eye on the investment scene? I am intrigued...
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Oct 13, 2016 15:40:55 GMT
Bear in mind there are probably reasons for cynicism ... SS needs to ascertain what they are. (How's PBL 064 shaping up, by the way? Vic behaving?) You seem to be saying that a significant number of loans are not highly regarded. But such a comment is not in accord with the fact that there are no available loans on the secondary market (except the one that is in default). Why is it that if these loans you refer to are so poorly regarded they are not up for sale? .....
My only suggestion in response to that question is that (maybe) less than 10% of investors read the forum and those who feel uneasy about these loans have already sold them to the 90%+ who don't, or are holding off until the loan has (say) 60 days left, therefore there is little or nothing available now.
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Post by supernumerary on Oct 13, 2016 15:57:34 GMT
I have already started my wind down along with many others. You can blindly accept all the bull that they throw out but some of us do read between the lines. I doubt very much if SS will change their criteria for loans. we will continue to see the same rubbish with the good. Always the cynic... Saving Stream, There is a spokesman from another p2p lender, whom I shall not name in person or the platform, who is always having a dig at the Saving Stream product... The digs are subtle and it makes me smile, because Saving Stream must be irritating them some what... What this competitor to you has done, is slowly lower the rates, due to market conditions and so lenders are now pulling their money out as it becomes available... I can't speak for Jaydee, but I can understand where he is coming from, because other p2p platforms offer good rates to start with and then slowly wind those rates down, as more investors become involved. A bit like savings accounts at Banks and Building Societies... IMHO, I think that is the angst that some lenders are having... That is me, reading between the lines. I shall try to be optimistic, positive and hope that you will do the very best you can for the savers and investors on your platform. PLEASE, keep up the GOOD work.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2016 16:28:20 GMT
From my own perspective I would like all the loans to still be at 1% per month, 12 % per year...
As it is a competitive market place and Saving Stream are having to turn away business because they can't match their competitors, then at least investors will have a choice of whether to invest or not in these lower interest rate loans.
I am sure that Saving Stream will do their best for us lenders who are investing in the Saving Stream platform and that there will still be new 12% loans coming on stream. However, in the future, there will be some loans at lower rates for some of the loans.
I have always been selective about the loans I have invested in any way, so I now have another variable to consider, when evaluating whether to invest or not.
I respect those posters on here, who are questioning the 'thin end of the wedge' approach, for a slow but gradual reduction in rates on the platform, but IMHO, customer resistance will prevail to stop that, due to the competitiveness of other platforms attracting good rates to lenders...
So Saving Stream will have to be mindful of that! I think SS success is down to the simplicity of its product, besides the good rates. In fact the rates were/are good but actually have been bettered by FS for months, specially now with all added bonuses. Once you start distinguishing loans you introduce a layer of additional difficulty, which might not be suitable to everyone. But for me it is still acceptable if this really brings a lot more business. Of course to be fair, also SS should cut their share of the pie... I will continue to analyse loans and borrowers individually. But clearly a 13% fair FS loan (and there are many) will get my money far easier than a 10% excellent SS loan. So, I am not conviced that the numbers will match at the end the SS predictions... The process should be made very slow and gradual.
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ben
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Post by ben on Oct 13, 2016 16:42:29 GMT
You just got to look at how popular some of the recent broadoak on MT have been to see that lower rates will still get people investing.
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Post by meledor on Oct 13, 2016 16:50:53 GMT
From my own perspective I would like all the loans to still be at 1% per month, 12 % per year...
As it is a competitive market place and Saving Stream are having to turn away business because they can't match their competitors, then at least investors will have a choice of whether to invest or not in these lower interest rate loans.
I am sure that Saving Stream will do their best for us lenders who are investing in the Saving Stream platform and that there will still be new 12% loans coming on stream. However, in the future, there will be some loans at lower rates for some of the loans.
I have always been selective about the loans I have invested in any way, so I now have another variable to consider, when evaluating whether to invest or not.
I respect those posters on here, who are questioning the 'thin end of the wedge' approach, for a slow but gradual reduction in rates on the platform, but IMHO, customer resistance will prevail to stop that, due to the competitiveness of other platforms attracting good rates to lenders...
So Saving Stream will have to be mindful of that! I think SS success is down to the simplicity of its product, besides the good rates. In fact the rates were/are good but actually have been bettered by FS for months, specially now with all added bonuses. Once you start distinguishing loans you introduce a layer of additional difficulty, which might not be suitable to everyone. But for me it is still acceptable if this really brings a lot more business. Of course to be fair, also SS should cut their share of the pie...I will continue to analyse loans and borrowers individually. But clearly a 13% fair FS loan (and there are many) will get my money far easier than a 10% excellent SS loan. So, I am not conviced that the numbers will match at the end the SS predictions... The process should be made very slow and gradual.
(My bold)
Interesting that you should think that SS should cut their share of the pie. I've just looked a the size of the FS share of the pie. FS charge a minimum of 2.4% per month (for loans over £50k) and considerably more for smaller loans. They quote an representative example of 2.73% per month which they state is 35.4% APR. So the FS share of the pie is considerably more than at SS and is one of the reasons I am not particularly interested in the pawnbroking side of P2P.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Oct 13, 2016 18:08:33 GMT
Of course to be fair, also SS should cut their share of the pie...(My bold)
Interesting that you should think that SS should cut their share of the pie. I've just looked a the size of the FS share of the pie. FS charge a minimum of 2.4% per month (for loans over £50k) and considerably more for smaller loans. They quote an representative example of 2.73% per month which they state is 35.4% APR. So the FS share of the pie is considerably more than at SS and is one of the reasons I am not particularly interested in the pawnbroking side of P2P. I don't feel the need for SS to cut their share of the pie -- as long as we're talking about their percentage share. If they currently are taking XX% of what borrowers are paying then I'd be happy if they continued taking XX% of what the borrowers of sub-12% loans are paying. What I wouldn't be happy with is for SS to keep their share constant in £££ money terms, which would mean they'd be taking a greater percentage of the smaller pie. If the pie is smaller, then fairness suggests everyone should receive a little less, not just the lenders/investors. As for what SS charge borrowers compared to what FS charge, I haven't a clue what the APR of a SS loan would be by the time they've added all their fees -- up-front fees, loan monitoring fees, exit fees, etc., etc. It might not be that different from FS's. If the FS rates really are noticeably higher than SS's, would someone care to explain why FS are bringing a steady stream of loans to their platform and the SS pipeline has slowed to a trickle -- to the point where SS are telling us that the only way they can have a decent pipeline is by lowering their rates to borrowers?
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Oct 13, 2016 18:37:09 GMT
You just got to look at how popular some of the recent broadoak on MT have been to see that lower rates will still get people investing. Broadoaks - aren't these the guys who guarantee that they will get the 5% hit in case of a loan security does not raise enough money in case of a default? This is more than a 'may be' provisional fund.
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mikeh
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Post by mikeh on Oct 13, 2016 19:21:56 GMT
mikes1531 and meledor . I think you have to be very careful comparing SS and FS because they structure property loans differently. Based on previous posts by SS they charge 4% upfront, 1.5%/month interest (again paid upfront) and a 2% exit fee. On a 1-year loan, that puts the borrower IRR @ 30.77%. The lender receives 1%/month in arrears, for an IRR @ 12.68%. So the lender is receiving just 41.2% of the borrower's cost of funding. I don't lend much on FS and it's less clear to me what FS precisely is charging. The fees FS quote on their website are for pawnbroking loans not for bridge loans. On property loans they state rates are from 1.5%/month, there are no upfront fees and that the interest is rolled up to the end of the loan. So for roll-up loans, 1.5%/month is an IRR @19.56%, 2%/month is an IRR @ 26.82% and 2.5%/month is an IRR @34.49%. Lenders receive the interest as a bullet at the end of the term, so their IRR on a typical 12% 1-year loan is simply 12%. So lenders might be receiving anything from 35% to 61% of the overall borrower cost of funding. My main conclusion is that nearly all bridge lending platforms, from the biggest such as LendInvest to the smallest, typically offer the lender just 40-60% of the actual borrower proceeds, which demonstrates the margin that's being take out. While this is true SS do offer some perks too: Interest pre drawdown even if it falls through, INPL and I think the intention (if not the guarantee) of covering bad debt.
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" that's on offer at 12% that they wouldn't touch with a bargepole? Surely these are the very people who should welcome a reduced rate if (and I admit this is the big IF) it results in a better quality of loan. I invest on other platforms at differing rates without too much hassle, but of course SS has offered exclusively at 12% for a long time now and its becoming harder to maintain a level of investment due to the smaller allocations. So overall I would cautiously welcome this but it will depend on what "even higher quality" actually looks like.
