bloodycat
Member of DD Central
Posts: 184
Likes: 84
|
Post by bloodycat on Jan 4, 2019 11:02:50 GMT
Final payment has now been made - not entirely gain free as we did at least get to keep the cashback if bought before the first interest run.
Can anyone who bought on the SM confirm that the capital shortfall recorded for their part(s) of DFL035 was also only equal (not greater than) to their total interest recieved.
|
|
|
Post by wilf on Jan 4, 2019 16:04:14 GMT
Do we even know how back the DFL35 shortfall is/was/would've been without the Provision Fairy stepping in? Is the figure I need to calculate bad debt? Read the hmrc doc and I would seem to have a loss but nothing on Lendy tax statement.
|
|
bloodycat
Member of DD Central
Posts: 184
Likes: 84
|
Post by bloodycat on Jan 4, 2019 16:38:52 GMT
The capital shortfalls listed in your transaction statement are (or should be) equal to the interest you received. So technically you haven't made a loss, other than the fact you could have been earning interest on the capital elsewhere.
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,330
Likes: 11,549
|
Post by ilmoro on Jan 4, 2019 16:54:53 GMT
It will depend when you invested. Any interest earnt before 5/4/18 will already have been declared so will not be included in this year's tax statement. Therefore capital returned plus interest earned 2018-19 minus 2017-18 interest will be the net figure for this loan. If you invested from the start I assume that would be negative (ie a loss) unless Lendy have discounted interest earned 17/18 from the settlement figure.
Wasn't in it so don't have any numbers to verify. However as the loan wasn't in legal recovery it can't be treated as irrecoverable so there is no loss claimable under HMRC rules. Lendy would have to declare a loss themselves
|
|
ped
Member of DD Central
Posts: 255
Likes: 84
|
Post by ped on Jan 5, 2019 8:12:56 GMT
It will depend when you invested. Any interest earnt before 5/4/18 will already have been declared so will not be included in this year's tax statement. Therefore capital returned plus interest earned 2018-19 minus 2017-18 interest will be the net figure for this loan. If you invested from the start I assume that would be negative (ie a loss) unless Lendy have discounted interest earned 17/18 from the settlement figure. Wasn't in it so don't have any numbers to verify. However as the loan wasn't in legal recovery it can't be treated as irrecoverable so there is no loss claimable under HMRC rules. Lendy would have to declare a loss themselves I was not in this one so have no numbers either. Not being in legal recovery, loan repaid but at a loss and lendy can still claim it has all gone swimmingly! I am waiting for the day when Ly do show a loss in a loan its going to be a biggy.
|
|
sl75
Posts: 2,092
Likes: 1,245
|
Post by sl75 on Jan 7, 2019 9:30:30 GMT
I had two parts in DFL035
1: invested on 01/03/2018, sold on 10/05/2018 after receiving cashback payment equivalent to 2% on 04/05/2018. Nothing has been clawed back, so all interest paid on that loan part has been retained. 2: invested on 04/05/2018, held to completion, receiving cashback equivalent to 1% on 04/06/2018. "Capital shortfall" of about 5.33% is equivalent to the interest received on that loan part (not including the accrued-but-not-paid interest)
Both of these were technically "Primary market" investments, so I've no direct evidence for how they handle loan parts bought on the secondary market - in particular whether there was an equitable division of the shortfall amongst current loan part holders (5.33% loss) that just happened to cancel out for those who reported so far (but which caused an overall loss for later investors), or whether there was an inequitable division of the shortfall.
I suspect that the inequitable division is what actually happened. Investors who want to mitigate against similar inequitable divisions in the future might perhaps choose to periodically sell all their loan parts ("locking in" the interest gains to date) and buy an equivalent amount of "new" loan parts... something I've sometimes done for other reasons anyway (e.g. I'd rather hold a single loan part for a round amount than a bunch of "shrapnel"), and so might inadvertently benefit from.
|
|
Mr_N
Posts: 222
Likes: 225
|
Post by Mr_N on Jan 7, 2019 10:23:53 GMT
I had two parts in DFL035
1: invested on 01/03/2018, sold on 10/05/2018 after receiving cashback payment equivalent to 2% on 04/05/2018. Nothing has been clawed back, so all interest paid on that loan part has been retained. 2: invested on 04/05/2018, held to completion, receiving cashback equivalent to 1% on 04/06/2018. "Capital shortfall" of about 5.33% is equivalent to the interest received on that loan part (not including the accrued-but-not-paid interest)
Both of these were technically "Primary market" investments, so I've no direct evidence for how they handle loan parts bought on the secondary market - in particular whether there was an equitable division of the shortfall amongst current loan part holders (5.33% loss) that just happened to cancel out for those who reported so far (but which caused an overall loss for later investors), or whether there was an inequitable division of the shortfall.
I suspect that the inequitable division is what actually happened. Investors who want to mitigate against similar inequitable divisions in the future might perhaps choose to periodically sell all their loan parts ("locking in" the interest gains to date) and buy an equivalent amount of "new" loan parts... something I've sometimes done for other reasons anyway (e.g. I'd rather hold a single loan part for a round amount than a bunch of "shrapnel"), and so might inadvertently benefit from.
Have you seen the secondary market since last summer?! Nothing is selling.
|
|
sl75
Posts: 2,092
Likes: 1,245
|
Post by sl75 on Jan 7, 2019 12:04:09 GMT
Have you seen the secondary market since last summer?! Nothing is selling. Incorrect. There are currently only 9 loans with parts available on the market, and of those, only 5 have queues longer than £10k. The rest are now selling relatively quickly, and the ones that are able to be sold but are not available right now are likely to sell almost straight away (e.g. PBL133, DFL034, DFL037 and others that you don't see on the available loans list because they're sold out!)
|
|
withnell
Member of DD Central
Posts: 550
Likes: 491
|
Post by withnell on Jan 7, 2019 12:19:52 GMT
Have you seen the secondary market since last summer?! Nothing is selling. Incorrect. There are currently only 9 loans with parts available on the market, and of those, only 5 have queues longer than £10k. The rest are now selling relatively quickly, and the ones that are able to be sold but are not available right now are likely to sell almost straight away (e.g. PBL133, DFL034, DFL037 and others that you don't see on the available loans list because they're sold out!) That's because all the other loan parts that used to have >100k queues have been suspended!
|
|
sl75
Posts: 2,092
Likes: 1,245
|
Post by sl75 on Jan 7, 2019 13:12:08 GMT
Incorrect. There are currently only 9 loans with parts available on the market, and of those, only 5 have queues longer than £10k. The rest are now selling relatively quickly, and the ones that are able to be sold but are not available right now are likely to sell almost straight away (e.g. PBL133, DFL034, DFL037 and others that you don't see on the available loans list because they're sold out!) That's because all the other loan parts that used to have >100k queues have been suspended! Yes, the suspension of the large number of connected loans that nobody wanted any more of does seem to have been the trigger for the recent speed-up in sales on the rest of the market (especially as this was also combined with some substantial repayments on other loans).
Mr_N incorrectly stated that nothing is selling, when in fact almost everything that can be sold is now selling, and most of it quite quickly. I did quite a few trades to tidy up my portfolio during the couple of weeks before Christmas, which were enabled by the shorter queues and faster selling speeds.
|
|
Mr_N
Posts: 222
Likes: 225
|
Post by Mr_N on Jan 7, 2019 19:33:29 GMT
That's because all the other loan parts that used to have >100k queues have been suspended! Yes, the suspension of the large number of connected loans that nobody wanted any more of does seem to have been the trigger for the recent speed-up in sales on the rest of the market (especially as this was also combined with some substantial repayments on other loans).
Mr_N incorrectly stated that nothing is selling, when in fact almost everything that can be sold is now selling, and most of it quite quickly. I did quite a few trades to tidy up my portfolio during the couple of weeks before Christmas, which were enabled by the shorter queues and faster selling speeds.
Go back a few months when there were 30+ loans worth tens of millions sat there doing nothing for the previous 12 months. Whatever pathetically small amount of loans parts are being swapped around right now by people who have no idea what they are letting themselves in for is pocket money. If a large supermarket has only sold 5 loaves of bread in three months and nothing else, it's pretty safe to say that nothing is selling. The manager of the store running around head office correcting everyone that he managed to sell 5 loaves of bread isn't going to change a damned thing.
|
|
sl75
Posts: 2,092
Likes: 1,245
|
Post by sl75 on Jan 8, 2019 8:07:01 GMT
Go back a few months when there were 30+ loans worth tens of millions sat there doing nothing for the previous 12 months. Whatever pathetically small amount of loans parts are being swapped around right now by people who have no idea what they are letting themselves in for is pocket money. If a large supermarket has only sold 5 loaves of bread in three months and nothing else, it's pretty safe to say that nothing is selling. The manager of the store running around head office correcting everyone that he managed to sell 5 loaves of bread isn't going to change a damned thing. Sure, but when the manager of the same supermarket has cleared the shelves of all the stale stuff nobody wanted to buy anyway, and can now report a large increase in sales, with several stock lines sold out completely, and most of the rest selling within a day or two, the guy whose frame of reference was from a few months ago, and is still sat outside the supermarket telling all the shoppers coming out with full shopping bags that "nothing is selling" starts to look a little silly! Especially when some of them are also suppliers to the supermarket and know perfectly well that their own stuff sells quickly too.
I suspect the mistake you're making is that you see a queue one day, then see a queue the next day, and assume that unsold loan parts from the previous day are still remaining unsold, without having bothered to check the "investor activity" tab where actual sales volume is recorded. For the loan part I sold yesterday while making some minor re-organisations to my portfolio, there was a £2k queue yesterday and there's a £4k queue today, but NONE of the loan parts that were in the queue yesterday are still there today; they all sold within a few hours - mine at some point in the evening, probably around the time of your reply... even the queues that aren't empty are moving queues rather than the almost static ones you're perhaps accustomed to.
|
|
Mr_N
Posts: 222
Likes: 225
|
Post by Mr_N on Jan 8, 2019 9:12:26 GMT
Go back a few months when there were 30+ loans worth tens of millions sat there doing nothing for the previous 12 months. Whatever pathetically small amount of loans parts are being swapped around right now by people who have no idea what they are letting themselves in for is pocket money. If a large supermarket has only sold 5 loaves of bread in three months and nothing else, it's pretty safe to say that nothing is selling. The manager of the store running around head office correcting everyone that he managed to sell 5 loaves of bread isn't going to change a damned thing. Sure, but when the manager of the same supermarket has cleared the shelves of all the stale stuff nobody wanted to buy anyway, and can now report a large increase in sales, with several stock lines sold out completely, and most of the rest selling within a day or two, the guy whose frame of reference was from a few months ago, and is still sat outside the supermarket telling all the shoppers coming out with full shopping bags that "nothing is selling" starts to look a little silly! Especially when some of them are also suppliers to the supermarket and know perfectly well that their own stuff sells quickly too.
I suspect the mistake you're making is that you see a queue one day, then see a queue the next day, and assume that unsold loan parts from the previous day are still remaining unsold, without having bothered to check the "investor activity" tab where actual sales volume is recorded. For the loan part I sold yesterday while making some minor re-organisations to my portfolio, there was a £2k queue yesterday and there's a £4k queue today, but NONE of the loan parts that were in the queue yesterday are still there today; they all sold within a few hours - mine at some point in the evening, probably around the time of your reply... even the queues that aren't empty are moving queues rather than the almost static ones you're perhaps accustomed to.
You're kidding? I had all of my loans up for sale since February, none sold, the final one went into default last month. The smallest sales queue out of the lot was over £300,000 and hadn't moved from that size for the entire time it was up for sale, until trading was suspended on it. I was diversified across 18 or so borrowers. When you have 800+ days of default you can come back and lecture people.
|
|
sl75
Posts: 2,092
Likes: 1,245
|
Post by sl75 on Jan 8, 2019 10:07:59 GMT
You're kidding? I had all of my loans up for sale since February, none sold, the final one went into default last month. The smallest sales queue out of the lot was over £300,000 and hadn't moved from that size for the entire time it was up for sale, until trading was suspended on it. I was diversified across 18 or so borrowers. When you have 800+ days of default you can come back and lecture people. I've got the 800+ days of default loans too. However, these are a small part of diversified portfolio that is still earning more interest overall than it is losing to unrecoverable defaults.
If you chose to manage your portfolio differently that was of course up to you, but I'm quite happy to have banked the interest that's been paid while my loan parts were NOT in the sales queue.
When you've participated in some recent loans you can come back and lecture people about the performance of the current market.
|
|
Mr_N
Posts: 222
Likes: 225
|
Post by Mr_N on Jan 8, 2019 10:14:02 GMT
You're kidding? I had all of my loans up for sale since February, none sold, the final one went into default last month. The smallest sales queue out of the lot was over £300,000 and hadn't moved from that size for the entire time it was up for sale, until trading was suspended on it. I was diversified across 18 or so borrowers. When you have 800+ days of default you can come back and lecture people. I've got the 800+ days of default loans too. However, these are a small part of diversified portfolio that is still earning more interest overall than it is losing to unrecoverable defaults.
If you chose to manage your portfolio differently that was of course up to you, but I'm quite happy to have banked the interest that's been paid while my loan parts were NOT in the sales queue.
When you've participated in some recent loans you can come back and lecture people about the performance of the current market.
You're using blind luck to justify a superiority complex, Sir.
|
|