SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Dec 12, 2016 17:05:52 GMT
If a borrower can pay the accrued interest at 6 months then the loan can be renewed anyway
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Dec 13, 2016 1:08:15 GMT
If a borrower can pay the accrued interest at 6 months then the loan can be renewed anyway The whole point is that I do not want to be forced to renew, waiting for another 6 months to get interest.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Dec 13, 2016 4:30:19 GMT
I would be in favour of this but I want the accrued interest paid at the 6 month mark and monthly after that. That would be nice, but I don't see it as very likely. In many -- most? -- of these cases the project is a cash absorber rather than a cash generator, so the borrower likely won't have the funds to finance a renewal. What they often need is for PP to be granted so that they can arrange for development financing that would replace the bridging loan they took out to fund their purchase. Or maybe to build up a bit of history so that they can get longer term financing from a mainstream lender. Or with a pawned item, they need something to go right for them in a big way -- exiting from another deal, for instance -- so that they can repay the loan in full. (Hopefully they're not relying on a big blue finger labelled "It could be you"!) In all of these cases, the exit timing is notoriously variable and, as a result, having a loan renew/repay after about six months doesn't happen often.
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daveb4
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Post by daveb4 on Dec 13, 2016 7:13:10 GMT
There are two types of property loans on the platform general bridging and development.
My thoughts are:
Bridging (includes obtaining planning developments)- term 6 months and penalties if exceeded eg after 1 month 0.5%pm increase (eg 1.5%pm)
Development - set up properly:
a) Small development - 12 months with further draw-downs to tie in with initial term end. b) Larger development - 18 months with further draw-downs to tie in with initial term end.
Again penalties at 0.5%pm if not repaid on time.
On all occasions obviously if they pay interest and wish to renew then they can but at least we will be earning extra interest to cover the increased risk.
In answer to the initial question, then this will focus borrowers minds and in turn reduce the number of 'rubbish' updates needed.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Dec 13, 2016 7:42:16 GMT
If a borrower can pay the accrued interest at 6 months then the loan can be renewed anyway The whole point is that I do not want to be forced to renew, waiting for another 6 months to get interest. Why would you be forced to renew?
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Dec 13, 2016 17:15:36 GMT
The whole point is that I do not want to be forced to renew, waiting for another 6 months to get interest. Why would you be forced to renew? ablender can speak for himself, but I took his comment to mean that he considered a 6-month loan that overran to 12-months as effectively being a forced renewal. To my mind, an overrunning loan is worse than a forced renewal because investors aren't paid interest at the 6-month point, and the LTV after 12 months is higher than it would have been with a proper renewal.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Dec 13, 2016 17:27:53 GMT
My thoughts are: Development - set up properly: a) Small development - 12 months with further draw-downs to tie in with initial term end. b) Larger development - 18 months with further draw-downs to tie in with initial term end. Again penalties at 0.5%pm if not repaid on time. On all occasions obviously if they pay interest and wish to renew then they can but at least we will be earning extra interest to cover the increased risk. daveb4: Are you happy that investors in the larger development loans would receive no interest for 18 months? I wouldn't have thought that many investors would be willing to accept that, particularly in light of the impact that would have on the LTV of the loan. (If you presume a 13% rate to investors and half that much to FS then what starts out as a 70% LTV loan becomes a 90+% LTV loan by the time it matures 18-months later. If the borrower then doesn't repay, and the loan goes through the usual long recovery process, I wouldn't rate the chance of investors recovering all their ordinary accrued interest -- much less any penalty rate accrued interest -- very high at all.)
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Dec 13, 2016 19:04:45 GMT
Why would you be forced to renew? ablender can speak for himself, but I took his comment to mean that he considered a 6-month loan that overran to 12-months as effectively being a forced renewal. To my mind, an overrunning loan is worse than a forced renewal because investors aren't paid interest at the 6-month point, and the LTV after 12 months is higher than it would have been with a proper renewal. renew, overrun, extended. I am using these terms interchangeably. Keep in mind that FS and the borrower tried to renew this loan and failed. Then FS decided to extended this loan by 30 days which now became like 5 months. In any case we do not see a penny of interest Nor the capital.
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daveb4
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Post by daveb4 on Dec 13, 2016 20:11:22 GMT
My thoughts are: Development - set up properly: a) Small development - 12 months with further draw-downs to tie in with initial term end. b) Larger development - 18 months with further draw-downs to tie in with initial term end. Again penalties at 0.5%pm if not repaid on time. On all occasions obviously if they pay interest and wish to renew then they can but at least we will be earning extra interest to cover the increased risk. daveb4 : Are you happy that investors in the larger development loans would receive no interest for 18 months? I wouldn't have thought that many investors would be willing to accept that, particularly in light of the impact that would have on the LTV of the loan. (If you presume a 13% rate to investors and half that much to FS then what starts out as a 70% LTV loan becomes a 90+% LTV loan by the time it matures 18-months later. If the borrower then doesn't repay, and the loan goes through the usual long recovery process, I wouldn't rate the chance of investors recovering all their ordinary accrued interest -- much less any penalty rate accrued interest -- very high at all.) Mikes1531 Good point. Needs to be interest taken up front and paid monthly not sure they would be happy to change their rules this much? Still stick with my rules regarding penalties for bridging though.
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09dolphin
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Post by 09dolphin on Dec 14, 2016 14:25:24 GMT
Out of curiosity what happens to the interest (money) when borrowers make a payment which doesn't cover the whole amount due?
There have been a couple of loans that FS have posted that a payment has been made as a gesture of good faith but I haven't received a partial repayment.
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09dolphin
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Post by 09dolphin on Dec 14, 2016 14:44:44 GMT
On the more recent discussion I would be happy for borrowers to have longer loans, up to 2 or 3 years, providing they made an interest payment after 6 months and then either monthly or 3 monthly interest payments. If interest is not paid as agreed after the initial 6 months then I do believe there should be penalties - I'm not sure how big or small these should be. Having said I support penalties for late payment I do think there should be a short period of grace - weeks rather than months - I'm sure we've all expected money to be available (especially from property deals) but there has been a couple of weeks before we can access it. I also seem to recall I've been told that legislation affects the type of transaction we all invest in and limits the ability to charge extra interest with the typical contract signed for short term loans.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Dec 14, 2016 18:50:21 GMT
Out of curiosity what happens to the interest (money) when borrowers make a payment which doesn't cover the whole amount due?
There have been a couple of loans that FS have posted that a payment has been made as a gesture of good faith but I haven't received a partial repayment. Only fundingsecure can answer this question with any authority, but I've never received a partial payment either. I presume the money is sitting in a FS bank account. I'd hope it was in a client account inasmuch as it's investors' money rather than FS's, but again only FS could say. cynic hat on/ In a situation such as this, we have to trust/believe the platform when they say they did receive money from the borrower, as it would be altogether too easy for them to say something like that just to give the impression that they're making progress with the borrower. But I suppose that's no different than for anything else they say/do. Trust is essential. If we don't have it, we shouldn't be investing.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Dec 14, 2016 19:15:40 GMT
Out of curiosity what happens to the interest (money) when borrowers make a payment which doesn't cover the whole amount due?
There have been a couple of loans that FS have posted that a payment has been made as a gesture of good faith but I haven't received a partial repayment. Only fundingsecure can answer this question with any authority, but I've never received a partial payment either. I presume the money is sitting in a FS bank account. I'd hope it was in a client account inasmuch as it's investors' money rather than FS's, but again only FS could say. cynic hat on/ In a situation such as this, we have to trust/believe the platform when they say they did receive money from the borrower, as it would be altogether too easy for them to say something like that just to give the impression that they're making progress with the borrower. But I suppose that's no different than for anything else they say/do. Trust is essential. If we don't have it, we shouldn't be investing.
I don't, so I'm not.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Dec 14, 2016 22:41:49 GMT
For our own updates.......looks like investors in W***b**y C***** 3057909038 and 5257926445 might be getting repaid before Xmas as the lender has appeared on SS Pipeline at a lower rate, although FS do not appear to have transferred the money to the lender yet after nearly 2 months. @leopardcat: Thanks for pointing this out, but I'm not convinced that the SS loan will scupper the FS loans. The info on both platforms mentions that the estate is divided into a number of parcels with separate titles. The FS loans are against two smallish parcels, together valued at about £625k. The SS loan is described as against the main castle, with no mention of the outlying properties, and the preliminary value of that is £4.9M. Until SS post the VR -- which they say they're expecting an update for on 16/Dec -- we won't know if the SS valuation includes the smaller parcels as well. If it does then, yes, that will mean the FS loans are in jeopardy. If it doesn't, then the borrower could decide that the larger SS loan might mean they won't want to proceed with the FS loans, but they could decide that they want all three loans. (At which point we can start worrying whether the borrower's strategy is one of 'sale by pawn'?) ISTM that the borrower probably has approached both FS and SS -- and possibly others -- for all their borrowing needs, and has been shopping around for the best deal. I'd guess that FS have offered better terms for the smaller loans, but declined to offer a castle loan because it's too big for them to be confident their investors would fund it. The purposes of the FS loans are described as "Client requires the funds to pursue a new development opportunity...". The new opportunity could be the main castle redevelopment which is ongoing, and the borrower may need to pledge the smaller properties in order to keep the LTV of the SS loan down to a reasonable level. So it wouldn't surprise me in the least if all three loans proceed. We may have to wait until we see SS's VR before we learn anything more.
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stub8535
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personal opinions only. Not qualified to advise on investment products.
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Post by stub8535 on Dec 18, 2016 16:59:48 GMT
On checking this yesterday i was infirmed by email that the ss loan does not interfere with the fs loans security.
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