Jeepers
Member of DD Central
Posts: 818
Likes: 721
|
Post by Jeepers on Jun 30, 2018 12:36:44 GMT
I'm not sure what to make of Lendy's decision on the loan, mostly due to poor communication.
It may be another borrower running rings around them and Lendy is having none of it this time.
I think the threat of administrators is more of a bargaining tool in negotiations.
|
|
|
Post by samford71 on Jun 30, 2018 13:45:31 GMT
pence . I have no idea why you think we're institutional. We never had more than £2mm on the platform between over 10+ individuals. Chump change in insto terms. No, we're just private investors that collaborate to reduce the inefficiency of P2P investment. Platforms refuse to provide even the most basic automated investment tools so we automate it ourselves. We can't waste time fiddling around with small loans to make £15k in interest; we have day jobs. SS was a nonsense platform in 2015/16. Essentially, you had large, high risk property loans (in some cases very smelly) that should have been highly illiquid. As interest on the bridges was taken upfront, the risk of default prior to redemption was suppressed. However, due to ideas like INPL (buying a loan without having to pay for it) and a par-only SM (so the price of the loan couldn't fall over the lifetime to reflect the jump-to-default risk at redemption), it was temporarily turned into a pure liquidity play i.e. people became convinced it was effectviely a 12% instant access account (a collective delusion really). So rather than do labourious DD on each loan, it became obvious to many, including ourselves, that the sensible trade was to simply buy long-dated loans a par, strip off most of the interest, and then sell them at par say 90 days before redemption. Repeat, rinse. To make that more efficient we developed an algo to risk manage the process. It was then a case of letting the algo buy the best loans against selling lower quality loans, whilst maintaining a target portfolio duration. Rebalancing between accounts was done during the early morning hours. ReCaptcha can be to some degree circumvented and we didn't need to win every trade, even a few percent success rate was enough to maintain the book. If liquidity dropped, it would auto sell and buy back when liquidity improved. We exited simply because that investment strategy was not sustainable once other investors started to realize that NPLs were building and SS dropped INPL. As a buy-and-hold type proposition, SS wasn't hugely attractive. They were only giving investors around 41% participation in the all-in-borrowers rate (borrowers were paying 31% IRR vs. 13% to lenders). By comparison, our syndicate's direct lending (via a private bank) achieves something closer to 80% participation (no platform, introducers, underwriters). The pro's of direct lending are rate and loan quality. The con's zero liquidity and limited diversification. P2P is the mirror image: low rates, low quality loans, some liquidity and large diversification. Edit: as an aside based on qualitative DD, I would have said DFL012 was one of their more decent loans. Just shows that good loans can turn out bad and smelly loans can turn out good.
|
|
|
Post by mrclondon on Jun 30, 2018 14:26:48 GMT
Edit: as an aside based on qualitative DD, I would have said DFL012 was one of their more decent loans. Just shows that good loans can turn out bad and smelly loans can turn out good. On the fundamentals of the proposed project, agreed, DFL012 looked a decent proposition (and I remain hopeful that my assesment of a low risk of loss on default remains accurate). However, at the time the loan was written we had limited real life data concerning the borrower's group. With hindsight taking into account PBL120 and AC's #327 it is obvious the borrower's capability for managing such projects is poor. Blaming contractors only goes so far. The risk of loans associated with this borrower defaulting I think has to be rated as high, and hence I find it surprising that the recent PBL200 managed to fill, as I rate the risk of loss on default of that loan as also high.
|
|
pence
Posts: 46
Likes: 14
|
Post by pence on Jul 1, 2018 2:01:42 GMT
We exited simply because that investment strategy was not sustainable once other investors started to realize that NPLs were building and SS dropped INPL. As a buy-and-hold type proposition, SS wasn't hugely attractive. They were only giving investors around 41% participation in the all-in-borrowers rate (borrowers were paying 31% IRR vs. 13% to lenders). By comparison, our syndicate's direct lending (via a private bank) achieves something closer to 80% participation (no platform, introducers, underwriters). The pro's of direct lending are rate and loan quality. The con's zero liquidity and limited diversification. P2P is the mirror image: low rates, low quality loans, some liquidity and large diversification. Thanks for the detailed information - all very interesting.
I thought you might be institutional cause of the 10+ accounts you mentioned - which a single private investor wouldn't have. I didn't get the idea you might be a group of private investors.
|
|
|
Post by picanto on Jul 6, 2018 15:38:57 GMT
The latest update states that Lendy are hopeful to repay all the outstanding capital to investors following the disposal of the property, so does that mean Lendy aren't hopeful of recovering the outstanding interest?
|
|
Monetus
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,179
Likes: 2,961
|
Post by Monetus on Jul 6, 2018 15:42:08 GMT
The latest update states that Lendy are hopeful to repay all the outstanding capital to investors following the disposal of the property, so does that mean Lendy aren't hopeful of recovering the outstanding interest? Basically, yes
|
|
averageguy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,188
Likes: 895
|
Post by averageguy on Jul 20, 2018 9:55:20 GMT
So two weeks on ..gripping update due today LOL ..I can dream
|
|
|
Post by brightspark on Jul 20, 2018 10:49:24 GMT
Realistically this one is going to take months if not years to resolve. Each position taken by Lendy as they creep towards resolution will have to be double checked on the legal side. Potential buyers will come and go as they usually do whilst the swings in the macro economic climate will also influence matters. Auction is a relatively straightforward disposal route but is unlikely to give the best return so is probably a last resort. So another 2 weeks in this mess is a blink of the eye. I do not anticipate anything other than a boiler plate kick the can down the road statements for quite a while. What is so irksome is how so soon the positive spin that had been put on the development became rubbish.
|
|
invester
P2P Blogger
Posts: 612
Likes: 618
|
Post by invester on Jul 20, 2018 10:58:56 GMT
Don't actually think this will take a long time to resolve.
The inevitable will happen, a vote to see if we want to accept something like £8m in settlement of the loan.
Despite a GDV of £23m and change, people vote to accept because they want their money out of Lendy.
The kind of antipathy towards the platform is playing straight into borrowers hands.
|
|
r1200gs
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,336
Likes: 1,883
|
Post by r1200gs on Jul 20, 2018 12:03:14 GMT
Don't actually think this will take a long time to resolve. The inevitable will happen, a vote to see if we want to accept something like £8m in settlement of the loan. Despite a GDV of £23m and change, people vote to accept because they want their money out of Lendy. The kind of antipathy towards the platform is playing straight into borrowers hands. You're absolutely right. This is much very sought after and well advanced project. Heck, even I fancied buying an apartment. As with 04, the borrowers will be more than happy for lenders to take a stupid offer leaving the developers with a massive profit. No skin off Lendy's nose either, only we lose. Don't accept those offers or more fool you folks. I understand the wanting to see the back of Lendy, but it is nothing short of foolish to go down this road of accepting silly offers.
|
|
|
Post by charliebrown on Jul 20, 2018 12:48:53 GMT
Borrowers don’t want to pay back in full, Lenders want out of LY as soon as possible and LY don’t care either way as Tim and Liam are probably already sizing up beach front bungalows in the Bahamas.
|
|
nsinvestor
Member of DD Central
Posts: 105
Likes: 110
|
Post by nsinvestor on Jul 20, 2018 13:07:43 GMT
It's not some closing down sale... 30% off etc, grab it whilst you can. Our security will still be there even if Lendy isn't. It's clearly worth considerably more than £11m otherwise the refinance offer wouldn't be there. Option 1 would see 76% return. No chance of seeing another penny. We still have first charge. The ball is in our court. Let's not have this one slipping through our fingers with others to follow. Wrong loan? (At least I hope the offer isn't £11m for this one)
|
|
victors
Member of DD Central
Posts: 157
Likes: 86
Member is Online
|
Post by victors on Aug 31, 2018 15:20:20 GMT
New update - needs more money than Lendy anticipated to make it wind and watertight. Do Lendy pay from their own pockets?
|
|
elliotn
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,064
Likes: 2,681
|
Post by elliotn on Aug 31, 2018 15:26:17 GMT
New update - needs more money than Lendy anticipated to make it wind and watertight. Do Lendy pay from their own pockets? As financial agent only, I doubt it.
|
|
|
Post by picanto on Aug 31, 2018 15:51:33 GMT
New update - needs more money than Lendy anticipated to make it wind and watertight. Do Lendy pay from their own pockets? How about a new second charge loan in the pipeline to raise the required funding? Oh wait...we've already tried that and it was a complete failure. This loan is becoming a bit of a farce from what I thought six months ago to be nearing completion....
|
|