nush
Member of DD Central
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Post by nush on Jun 22, 2018 17:54:58 GMT
does kuflink pay cashback on all pre draw down loans now or just the select few
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Post by davidjones on Jun 25, 2018 13:32:30 GMT
Contemptuous silence again! Well done KL! Hi jnm21, We are sorry that you feel this way – it was not our intention to come across rude in any way. Although we are keen to retain a presence on forums such as this one, we would encourage you to direct all enquiries which require a quick response from Kuflink to our dedicated investor relations team. This way, we can be sure that everyone receives a timely and full response. You can do this via email, telephone or the live chat function on our platform. You correctly note that our co-investment is based on double our average default rate, although in practice Kuflink investors actually benefit from almost ten times more protection than our average default rate thanks to our20% guarantee. If we were to take the highest single loan default rate and halve it, the figure would be significantly less than the current co-investment. What’s more, for all historic loans that have fallen in to arrears, we have been able to recover the full loan amount before any losses were incurred. If Kuflink were to go into liquidation, the 20% guarantee would become an important factor in the winding down process. The receivers would make sure this is invoked and the investors would get this paid to them before any other monies are taken in to account. Regards Dave
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Post by davidjones on Jun 25, 2018 13:33:00 GMT
does kuflink pay cashback on all pre draw down loans now or just the select few By investing in a deal on reserve, you will accrue interest daily which will be paid as a cashback the day the deal goes live. On the same day this cashback is paid, you will begin to accrue interest as normal, which will be repaid along with capital on the day the deal closes. If you withdraw reserve funds before the deal goes live, you will lose your cashback. In the unlikely event that the loan does not complete we will return your funds to your Kuflink wallet within 1 working day. If the deal does not complete you will not receive cashback on your reserved funds. Regards Dave
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jnm21
Posts: 441
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Kuflink
Jun 28, 2018 7:01:17 GMT
via mobile
Post by jnm21 on Jun 28, 2018 7:01:17 GMT
enquiries which require a quick response Can you clarify if quick means less than 6 weeks? Sorry, but kufflink's CS over the last 2 or 3 months has been contemptuous & this attempt to justify it makes me laugh.
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jnm21
Posts: 441
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Kuflink
Jun 28, 2018 7:04:33 GMT
via mobile
Post by jnm21 on Jun 28, 2018 7:04:33 GMT
What is wrong with this company? Are they trying to do their best to persuade people not to invest? Had more contact with Collateral in the past couple of months. I would probably be equally keen to invest with them as KL now! At least KL showed their colours just in time before my investments locked in! If only I could say the same about another platform I would be less stressed!
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puddleduck
Member of DD Central
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Post by puddleduck on Jun 28, 2018 7:47:05 GMT
enquiries which require a quick response Can you clarify if quick means less than 6 weeks? Sorry, but kufflink's CS over the last 2 or 3 months has been contemptuous & this attempt to justify it makes me laugh. I was very critical of the 20% skin in the game withdrawal, or rather the bogus reasons initially given. However I have always found Kuflink excellent whenever I've needed to contact them, Livechat I find them very responsive, Molly has been great helping with some referral payment issues and Olivia helped sort out a multiple withdrawal issue I had just this week. For real CS issues (as opposed to moans on a forum!), Livechat is the best approach as you are logged in and they know who you are and can access your account. It must be harder to give real 'CS' to screennames on a forum for obvious reasons. I also think there is a lot to be said for making your point once, then moving on, as at this point its pretty clear that the changes that have been made are here to stay, so I think its ultimately fairly pointless trying to keep fighting the same battle.
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jnm21
Posts: 441
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Post by jnm21 on Jun 28, 2018 8:13:23 GMT
puddleduck, you are welcome to your opinion, but I think the P2P industry does what they like in the hope that people will be apathetic. I still think that there are valid questions on the various threads that have not been answered & until they are, I will continue calling them out on it. It is interesting how they chose ask people to re-ask their questions & then to move to a different thread; one could be forgiven for thinking that they are running from the questions. I am not naive enough to think that the changes will be reversed (though 'moaning' on these forums did get a partial reversal, to be enjoyed by all - those who cared enough to 'moan' & probably more so by those more apathetic as they will be more accepting of the change as revised). All I want is clear proof of how the new arrangements work - potentially (despite the above from DJ) their 15% guarantee could be worthless if they fold with no assets. I would agree that their livechat is useful & indeed the folk are helpful, but these are not account specific queries & a platform with nothing to hide should be keen to update as many customers as possible. They have gone from a near perfect reputation on here & a truly standout USP to an also ran small platform (one that paid out a lot of money to grow & then threw away many of that larger investor base).
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Post by Ace on Jun 28, 2018 13:15:31 GMT
puddleduck , you are welcome to your opinion, but I think the P2P industry does what they like in the hope that people will be apathetic. I still think that there are valid questions on the various threads that have not been answered & until they are, I will continue calling them out on it. It is interesting how they chose ask people to re-ask their questions & then to move to a different thread; one could be forgiven for thinking that they are running from the questions. I am not naive enough to think that the changes will be reversed (though 'moaning' on these forums did get a partial reversal, to be enjoyed by all - those who cared enough to 'moan' & probably more so by those more apathetic as they will be more accepting of the change as revised). All I want is clear proof of how the new arrangements work - potentially (despite the above from DJ) their 15% guarantee could be worthless if they fold with no assets. I would agree that their livechat is useful & indeed the folk are helpful, but these are not account specific queries & a platform with nothing to hide should be keen to update as many customers as possible. They have gone from a near perfect reputation on here & a truly standout USP to an also ran small platform (one that paid out a lot of money to grow & then threw away many of that larger investor base). Well said. Come on kuflink , please go through the threads and at least provide the answers that were promised. I for one would welcome hari back. He may have been a little slow to respond at times, but at least he seemed to meet questions and criticisms head on, and genuinely seemed to understand the concerns.
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Post by Olivia on Jul 10, 2018 15:01:09 GMT
Dear Investors & P2P Independent Forum,
I would like to take the time to apologise for our lack of responses on here of late. We, the Kuflink Group, could sit here all day long and attempt to justify our lack of engagement with you all recently, and deny any wrongdoing from our behalf - but instead, we want to use this space to firstly apologise, and secondly to answer as many unanswered questions as possible.
As a company, we are dedicated to always giving our investors the best experience possible. Good customer service is something we strive for every day, and it is central to our company’s culture and values. We recognise that over the past weeks we have not been responsive enough on this forum, and the responses you have received from us have been sub-par. For this, we apologise profusely and hope it is conveyed sincerely.
Whilst I’m sure you can appreciate how busy we have been in the last few months, by no means will we use that to mitigate any fault from our end. We want to maintain a good presence on forums such as this one, but we just haven’t had the resources necessary to dedicate chunks of our day to stay afloat of forum threads. To this end, we kindly ask that if you have any questions going forward, please direct them to a member of the Kuflink team or message us via our social media pages.
Every day we work towards building consumer confidence in our product and have lengthy processes in place to minimise risk to our investors. We constantly review our underwriting procedures, we have frequent contact with the FCA regarding our proposition and take security extremely seriously. We have recently gained ISO27001 certification and are currently going through the process to get a HackerGuardian security system in place. With all the ‘behind the scenes’ effort we put into every deal and our company, we sincerely hope that we can rebuild our relationships with you once we have improved our communications on this forum.
We are pleased to have now had time to go through these threads and pull out any unanswered questions. If you have asked something we have not picked up on, please bring this to our attention by contacting us directly and we will be more than happy to provide answers.
We are also excited to share some big news with you – in line with your feedback, we have been working on setting up a secondary market and will be launching this in the coming weeks!
Kind regards,
The Kuflink Group
• Where a loan has been drawn down in tranches and began prior to the change we made to our co-investment, it will continue to draw down with 20% co-investment from Kuflink Bridging Ltd.
• Kuflink Ltd took the decision to continue co-investing alongside our investors over providing a provision fund. This co-investment, albeit at the lesser amount of 5%, is supported by our 20% first loss guarantee (inclusive of this 5% stake) which in the event of a loss will be covered by Kuflink Bridging Ltd. Moreover, Kuflink Group Plc has £4.2 million in equity, which further supports consumer confidence in Kuflink’s 20% guarantee.
• Kuflink’s 20% Guarantee means that if a loan falls in to default, Kuflink would cover the first 20% of the total loan amount. As such, no investors would be affected until more than 20% of the loan amount was lost, which is a unique level of protection within the P2P sector. The money for the guarantee is provided by Kuflink Group Plc, which has £4.2 million in equity. We also co-invest 5% in all Select-Invest loans, which would form the first 5% of the 20% guarantee.
• Kuflink’s 20% Guarantee will be mandatory. As we continue to co-invest alongside you, our 5% investment will be the first automatic ‘payout’, with the remaining amount (up to a further 15%) being covered by Kuflink Bridging Ltd.
• In order to treat our borrowers fairly in circumstances where they have missed a repayment, we will endeavour to work closely with them in order to understand the reasons why. In some instances, where the board of directors deems it the most suitable scenario for all involved, we may re-term the loan to better achieve the exit. However, when a borrower defaults on a payment and, following communications with Kuflink, s/he continues to not make payments, our Head of Collections will begin the process of putting the security into receivership. This effectively means that we will place the security property into an auction to redeem the loan amount. Kuflink lends up to 75% LTV, and so the UK property market value would have to drop by 25% before Kuflink’s 20% Guarantee were to ‘kick in’. It is only in the event that Kuflink Bridging Ltd is not able to recover more than than 55% of the value of the property that investors would be affected.
• Kuflink’s CTO Hari Ramamurthy has created an illustration as per some requests – example 1 is a ‘break-even’ scenario, and example 2 is a loss-making scenario.
Example 1 (Asset depreciation by 24.5%):
Asset value at beginning of term: £100,000
Loan: £75,000
Rate: say 7% pa paid monthly
Kuflink skin in the game: £3,750
Kuflink guarantee: £11,250
Asset value at end of loan term: £75,500
Distribution of funds:
Capital owed to investors: £71,250
Interest owed to investors (assume a full month's of interest): £415.62
Total owed to investors: £71,665.62
Asset cost recovered: £75,500
Costs: £15,000
Funds available to distribute: Asset cost recovered - costs = £60,500
In this case, Kuflink guarantee steps in with £11,250 to pay the investor community the capital and interest owed, Kuflink takes a loss on the 5% skin in the game and this is near the breaking point of our test.
Example 2 (Asset depreciation by say 30%):
Asset value at beginning of term: £100,000
Loan: £75,000
Rate: say 7% pa paid monthly
Kuflink skin in the game: £3,750
Kuflink guarantee: £11,250
Asset value at end of loan term: £70,000
Distribution of funds:
Capital owed to investors: £71,250
Interest owed to investors (assume a full month's of interest): £415.62
Total owed to investors: £71,665.62
Asset cost recovered: £70,000
Costs: £15,000
Funds available to distribute: Asset cost recovered - costs = £55,000
In this case, Kuflink guarantee steps in with £11,250, however, in this scenario the online community does incur a loss on the deal in the form of £71,655.62 - £66,250 = £5,405.62
Having said this, we have policies, process and monitoring set in place from the outset of to ensure we don't end up in a situation where the asset price has depreciated sharply in a short space of time during the loan term. We want to operate a profitable business and provide a relatively safer environment for our investors in the P2P sector.
Some situations are beyond our control, even with processes and systems in place, property prices have depreciated in the past pretty sharply and their are certain risks involved while investing in property backed loans.
• From April 2018 onwards, we have introduced a new ‘loan update’ feature which communicates the status of each loan on our platform to our investors. As and when we receive updates, either from our borrowers, underwriters, brokers, solicitors and/or receivers, we update this section under the relevant loan and send an e-mail to all those who have invested in that deal to alert them on a new update. This feature comes from listening to our investors, both in our direct communications with them and on forums such as this.
• With regards to our customer service on this forum, we again apologise. Our client facing team work very hard and are very good at giving some of the best service in the industry, whether that’s on our live online chat, over the phone or via e-mail. We monitor the quality, speed and friendliness of these responses and are proud to say they represent the company. Up until recently, replying to forum posts has not fallen exclusively under any one job role and queries were picked up by whoever was best equipped to answer. We have now restructured internally and appointed a member of the team who will monitor forums frequently (within reason), with a view to get an answer out as soon as possible. Gentle reminder: please do contact us directly if you require a quick answer, or for all enquiries regarding your account.
• Until further notice, Kuflink will be paying interest on all pre-drawn down loans. However, this functions as a cashback offer. By investing in a deal which is on reserve, you will accrue interest daily which is then paid as a cashback the day the deal goes live. On the same day this cashback is paid, you will begin to accrue interest as normal, which will be paid into your wallet monthly. If you withdraw your reserve funds before the deal goes live, you will not be eligible for this cashback.
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Post by trentenders on Jul 10, 2018 18:49:07 GMT
Thank you for the update.
I have a couple of questions and one comment, if you don't mind(?)
1) When will the 20% kick-in? Would you be agreeable to cover lost interest and the initial 20% as soon as a loan defaults, rather than waiting for conclusion (recouping the money for yourself and the remaining capital for investors) when recovered? If not, what stops you kicking the can down the road (particularly on any large loans) indefinitely?
2) How much of the £4.2m equity is readily accessible for use in backing up the guarantee (quickly)?
3) Is any of the £4.2m equity currently invested in the same Kufflink (or other) loans?
4) Will the pre-drawdown cashback (thank you - a good development IMO) really classed as cashback, rather than interest? I like cashback, because I wouldn't have to pay tax on it  but I'd appreciate another one of your 'guarantees' on this point.
Comment: Are there any plans to make your marketing more sensible? I may be a minority, but I really dislike the amount of puns in your emails, and I would much more inclined to invest if they stated amount of loan, details of the security and the purpose of the loan - I care less about a property being located near somewhere that you can joke about, and more about whether I think you're serious about looking after my money.
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Post by Ace on Jul 11, 2018 18:02:30 GMT
Hello Olivia , Thanks for the update. I have some points that I would like to make. - I appreciate that a faster response may be obtained by contacting Kuflink directly rather than via the forum. However, I feel that it is better to air general points and questions via an open forum such as this as I would like to benefit from the questions and responses from others. This is particularly true since none of the detail regarding your guarantee seems to be available via your website.
- There seems to be a contradiction between "Example 2" and your statement "It is only in the event that Kuflink Bridging Ltd is not able to recover more than than 55% of the value of the property that investors would be affected." In this example 70% of the value of the loan was recovered, but investors were affected.
- As I pointed out before, and did not receive a response. If Kuflink truly has "skin in the game" then I feel it should bear it's percentage of the recovery costs, rather than having 100% of the recovery costs being born by other investors.
Regards Ace |
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Post by captainb on Jul 12, 2018 9:17:17 GMT
I agree with trensetters comment about the loan marketing having taken on a less serious approach.
I would rather KF spent their time on protecting our investments than thinking up Arsenal and Brands Hatch jokes etc.
Its become abit schoolboyish in my view.
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invester
P2P Blogger
Posts: 612
Likes: 618
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Post by invester on Jul 12, 2018 10:05:31 GMT
In the trade, we call this 'polishing a turd'.
If you are paying 6.7% investors for a second charge loan, it's natural that some kind of excitement needs to be generated.
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Post by trentenders on Jul 12, 2018 11:05:33 GMT
In the trade, we call this 'polishing a turd'. If you are paying 6.7% investors for a second charge loan, it's natural that some kind of excitement needs to be generated.
Try glitter instead
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Post by Olivia on Jul 12, 2018 14:28:45 GMT
Hi all,
Please note that your comments and questions have been seen, and I’m just awaiting a response from senior management on a couple of those. I will be sure to get back to you all as soon as possible!
Olivia
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but I'd appreciate another one of your 'guarantees' on this point.