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Post by mopcku on Jan 6, 2017 17:08:24 GMT
Hello Guys
I have a question related to the Bondora API. I hope there are other people here already with experience in implementing the calls to the API.
Last days I started testing it and now I have a strange behavior I cannot figure out. It follows the description of what happens.
First I call GET api/v1/auctions and get an AuctionId to Auction with RemainingAmount>5
Then I call POST api/v1/bid with the corresponding AuctionId and Amount=5.
The operation seems to be OK since I get Response Code 202.
Also when I call after that api/v1/bid/{id} with the corresponding BidId and get StatusCode=5 and ApiBidFailureReason=0 which should indicate Accepted.
The problem is that after couple of minutes the same Bids turns to StatusCode=3 and ApiBidFailureReason=6 or 9 which indicates Failed.
Does anyone have an Idea what is wrong here? What is the reason for my bids failing?
Thank you very much Mopcku
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Post by oktaeder on Jan 7, 2017 9:29:49 GMT
Yes that is very common. Most of API bids fail because you are outbed by portfoliomanager's bids.
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Post by mopcku on Jan 8, 2017 19:07:22 GMT
Yes that is very common. Most of API bids fail because you are outbed by portfoliomanager's bids. Thank you for the information Is there somewhere a description of the bid priority of the bondora market? Br Mopcku
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Post by oktaeder on Jan 8, 2017 20:53:24 GMT
No, only guesses. Bondora is not very cooperative in responding such questions. Higher bid beats lower, PM beats API.
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Post by mopcku on Jan 8, 2017 21:04:11 GMT
No, only guesses. Bondora is not very cooperative in responding such questions. Higher bid beats lower, PM beats API. Thanks
I think i will ask their support directly.
BR Mopcku
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Post by rahafoorum on Jan 9, 2017 11:20:17 GMT
Yes that is very common. Most of API bids fail because you are outbed by portfoliomanager's bids. Thank you for the information Is there somewhere a description of the bid priority of the bondora market? Br Mopcku00 Latest I heard it was something like this: 1. Full bids from API (if application is for €5000, then an API bid with €5000 will get it). 2. Portfolio Manager 3. API Within 2. and 3. the bigger your bid, the earlier in the queue you are. In other words, a person with €50 bid will get a chance before a person with €10 bid.
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Post by mopcku on Jan 9, 2017 13:37:25 GMT
Thank you for the information Is there somewhere a description of the bid priority of the bondora market? Br Mopcku00 Latest I heard it was something like this: 1. Full bids from API (if application is for €5000, then an API bid with €5000 will get it). 2. Portfolio Manager 3. API
Thanks
the stupid thing is that this leads to tradeoff with the possibility to diversify.
Having bigger positions reduces diversification effect and the same time increases the chance of bid accepted.
BR
Mopcku
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JamesFrance
Member of DD Central
Port Grimaud 1974
Posts: 1,323 
Likes: 897
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Post by JamesFrance on Jan 9, 2017 14:26:26 GMT
Being Bondora any of this could change at any time without any notification to investors, so if you do get an answer it could still be different tomorrow.
Never a dull moment for investors here.
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Post by rahafoorum on Jan 9, 2017 20:04:26 GMT
Thanks
the stupid thing is that this leads to tradeoff with the possibility to diversify.
Having bigger positions reduces diversification effect and the same time increases the chance of bid accepted.
BR
Mopcku Well, you COULD invest with API in €25 pieces for example and try to sell all the rest of the pieces on SM. Although, that's the wrong thing to focus on imho. Your first question should be what your potential return will be with Bondora? And at what risk? One reason I quit was, that I don't believe it is possible to find a meaningful answer to that question after all the DCA processes and constant changes (including backdating ones) and bugs. For example, the DCA fees and methodology used for deducting those have changed quite a few times within a year and still seem to be relatively buggy or foggy between anything from 0%-100% including some random one time deductions in the middle of several payments from an old defaulted loan. There's also no meaningful data to calculate the DCA penalty from the 7 day overdue process, which by default penalizes more as the quality of your investments increases. By how much? Who knows? Back in the day when Bondora provided info, that on average a loan goes into 7+ day overdue for 2.5 times, I ran a few calculations that on average almost 80% of the cases recovered on their own before the DCA intervention was made. Most of those self-recoveries were made by lower risk and more mature loans, on which you will still pay the 35% (or 50%? or 8%? or 75%?) of payment as DCA fee. I ran a few calculations back then here, if you're interested. Btw, my calculations showed that it is practically guaranteed to be a negative cashflow deal for investors, but those were done at the initially advertised 15% success fee, not the 35%ish used today. rahafoorum.ee/en/decide-if-debt-collection-good/If you manage to figure out how to actually calculate your potential risk/return and find it acceptable, then you can start worrying about how you can start investing.
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Post by mopcku on Jan 9, 2017 21:39:30 GMT
Thank you very much for all the information.
I will look also at your forum since i see a couple of other topics which are of interest for me... like default curves etc
Thanks
the stupid thing is that this leads to tradeoff with the possibility to diversify.
Having bigger positions reduces diversification effect and the same time increases the chance of bid accepted.
BR
Mopcku Well, you COULD invest with API in €25 pieces for example and try to sell all the rest of the pieces on SM. Although, that's the wrong thing to focus on imho. Your first question should be what your potential return will be with Bondora? And at what risk? One reason I quit was, that I don't believe it is possible to find a meaningful answer to that question after all the DCA processes and constant changes (including backdating ones) and bugs. For example, the DCA fees and methodology used for deducting those have changed quite a few times within a year and still seem to be relatively buggy or foggy between anything from 0%-100% including some random one time deductions in the middle of several payments from an old defaulted loan. There's also no meaningful data to calculate the DCA penalty from the 7 day overdue process, which by default penalizes more as the quality of your investments increases. By how much? Who knows? Back in the day when Bondora provided info, that on average a loan goes into 7+ day overdue for 2.5 times, I ran a few calculations that on average almost 80% of the cases recovered on their own before the DCA intervention was made. Most of those self-recoveries were made by lower risk and more mature loans, on which you will still pay the 35% (or 50%? or 8%? or 75%?) of payment as DCA fee. I ran a few calculations back then here, if you're interested. Btw, my calculations showed that it is practically guaranteed to be a negative cashflow deal for investors, but those were done at the initially advertised 15% success fee, not the 35%ish used today. rahafoorum.ee/en/decide-if-debt-collection-good/If you manage to figure out how to actually calculate your potential risk/return and find it acceptable, then you can start worrying about how you can start investing.
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Post by rahafoorum on Jan 10, 2017 7:36:36 GMT
Those are quite outdated by now to be honest. Haven't done any analyses for a long while since I don't invest there anymore.
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Post by mopcku on Jan 10, 2017 11:55:02 GMT
I am less interested in the numbers but more about the methodology other people are using - i am sure i will learn something
Those are quite outdated by now to be honest. Haven't done any analyses for a long while since I don't invest there anymore.
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Post by Estonia Invest on Jul 5, 2017 14:24:11 GMT
Hi everyone,
I've been using BeePlus for Primary Loans but rarely get anything (a few times a month) because my criteria is very strict. Other than that, I have been buying manually on the Secondary market according to my system.
So now that BeePlus is a paid service and Secondary market was added to BeePlus I wanted to get more value out of it and set up the rules for Secondary. Here is where I got stuck... My system for buying loans manually on the secondary market is:
Log into Bondora and put in my search string in the browser window.
The criteria in that string is something like: Estonia, Interest 28%+, XIRR 20%+, markup 11% max, Rating-ALL except HR (realistically this gets only D, E, F), Loan Status: Current, loan rescheduled: Never, Loan Listed: (date 9 months ago or older)
Basically I want 9 months of perfect payments with no late payment history.
But that's not all... When I get a list of loans based on this search string(it's short,right now getting 8 records), I manually open each one and see if there is anything under "Collection Process" dropdown menu. If it's clear, I BUY IMMEDIATELY. If there are any records in there such as:
11/06/2017 Collection In-house collection Started
12/06/2017 Collection In-house collection PaidOff
...I simply skip and go to the next one.
To make a long story short, I can't figure out how to configure this in BeePlus. They have "Total late charges paid amount" which of course I set to "0" but it doesn't cover my scenario. Help???
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Post by wiseclerk on Jul 5, 2017 19:23:20 GMT
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Post by Estonia Invest on Jul 5, 2017 21:10:12 GMT
Hi Wiseclerk (sorry, I don't know your name) Thanks for the reply but I am a bit confused-Oktaeder specifically says in the comments that Secondary market is not supported. Am I missing something? P.S. Where is all the Bondora discussion going on now? I noticed that on your forum, the last entry is from March 2016 and it's a question that I posted.
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