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Post by yorkshireman on Jun 9, 2014 9:05:36 GMT
I recognise the Scottish contribution to the historical success of the UK but we now have the outrageous situation whereby the Scottish parliament acts in it’s own right without any input from the rest of the UK yet Scottish (and Welsh and Northern Irish for that matter) MP’s at Westminster get to vote on wholly English matters, which I consider to be a totally undemocratic and unreasonable state of affairs.
Labour losing it’s Scottish power base could force it to become a less tribal and more representative party than it is now in order to attract more English voters outside of it’s heartlands in South Yorkshire, Merseyside and the North East which can only be good for democracy.
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Post by captainconfident on Jun 9, 2014 16:28:01 GMT
If Scotland becomes independent, would UKIP rename themselves EIP and campaign to get England out of the EU?
Would there still be much enthusiasm for that among the populace?
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Post by phoenix on Jun 9, 2014 17:39:29 GMT
Anyway,how come the English don't get a vote as to whether Scotland should be a separate country?? I think imperialism is somewhat frowned upon these days. 
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Post by oldnick on Jun 9, 2014 19:39:41 GMT
I recognise the Scottish contribution to the historical success of the UK but we now have the outrageous situation whereby the Scottish parliament acts in it’s own right without any input from the rest of the UK yet Scottish (and Welsh and Northern Irish for that matter) MP’s at Westminster get to vote on wholly English matters, which I consider to be a totally undemocratic and unreasonable state of affairs.
Labour losing it’s Scottish power base could force it to become a less tribal and more representative party than it is now in order to attract more English voters outside of it’s heartlands in South Yorkshire, Merseyside and the North East which can only be good for democracy.
I quite agree that we English lack the same regional representation, but I'm reluctant to ask for another tier of government - perhaps it could be in place of county councils? As for the Labour party, I can't help thinking they're ultimately a spent force, having achieved their original 19th centuary aims and now reduced to just disagreeing when in opposition and then apeing the Tories when in power. It's their constituancy that is least likely to bother to vote, for the simple reason that they are now housed, fed and clothed, with generous employment rights, and don't need to fight anymore.
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Post by jevans4949 on Jun 9, 2014 19:41:54 GMT
I wonder whether Alex Salmond would be interested in investing in my project for a new business park down in Panama ...
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Post by batchoy on Jun 9, 2014 20:07:08 GMT
I recognise the Scottish contribution to the historical success of the UK but we now have the outrageous situation whereby the Scottish parliament acts in it’s own right without any input from the rest of the UK yet Scottish (and Welsh and Northern Irish for that matter) MP’s at Westminster get to vote on wholly English matters, which I consider to be a totally undemocratic and unreasonable state of affairs.
Labour losing it’s Scottish power base could force it to become a less tribal and more representative party than it is now in order to attract more English voters outside of it’s heartlands in South Yorkshire, Merseyside and the North East which can only be good for democracy.
I quite agree that we English lack the same regional representation, but I'm reluctant to ask for another tier of government - perhaps it could be in place of county councils? As for the Labour party, I can't help thinking they're ultimately a spent force, having achieved their original 19th centuary aims and now reduced to just disagreeing when in opposition and then apeing the Tories when in power. It's their constituancy that is least likely to bother to vote, for the simple reason that they are now housed, fed and clothed, with generous employment rights, and don't need to fight anymore. One of the problems with regional representation be they local or county councils or regional assemblies is that people don't take them seriously and use their votes to send a protest to the national government. As a result in the recent local authority elections we had candidates from a range of national parties all with policies relating to the local area and we had a UKIP candidate whose sole policy was to leave the EU and to get rid of all the foreigners. Any guesses who got elected? You got it the UKIP candidate who had no local policies.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jun 9, 2014 20:25:13 GMT
Anyway,how come the English don't get a vote as to whether Scotland should be a separate country?? I think imperialism is somewhat frowned upon these days. Oh, you thought we'd perhaps vote to keep them?! That wasn't the thought at all .. 8>.
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j
Member of DD Central
Penguins are very misunderstood!
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Post by j on Jun 9, 2014 22:29:44 GMT
As per my previous posts, I frown upon separation (nothing to do with nationality, historical feuds, resources, etc), it is simply that together means better & stronger. Likewise, I see no issue in a certain degree of say, regional autonomy, where a specified geographical entities get to govern & control their spend with a centralised government keeping an eye on any misappropriation going on. The basic problem is that politics/politicians as a whole are so corrupt to the core, one worries who will scratch who's back rather than keep an honest watchful eye on each other. Anyway, late night rant over & done with, I'm off to bed. Good night one & all  |
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Post by captainconfident on Jun 10, 2014 20:12:14 GMT
I'm English, and happy to call myself British but not English, which I associate with small minded xenophobic nimbys. But when I heard some of the  talked by some Scots in the course of this never ending referendum debate, I have begun to feel it best if they do go and paddle their own canoe if they really feel that they have been so oppressed in the past and genuinely feel emotion about lack of support for the colony in Panama. But pretty soon I would have to accept the term English, as the Welsh would probably wisely stay in the EU with Scotland and Ireland as a sort of Celtic Confederation. But I am totally happy with London, a cosmopolitan, harmonious outlier, certainly in terms of the last elections. If the English vote to leave the EU, I would propose London leave England and as a separate city state and stay in. |
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j
Member of DD Central
Penguins are very misunderstood!
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Post by j on Jun 10, 2014 20:36:32 GMT
I'm English, and happy to call myself British but not English, which I associate with small minded xenophobic nimbys. But when I heard some of the talked by some Scots in the course of this never ending referendum debate, I have begun to feel it best if they do go and paddle their own canoe if they really feel that they have been so oppressed in the past and genuinely feel emotion about lack of support for the colony in Panama. But pretty soon I would have to accept the term English, as the Welsh would probably wisely stay in the EU with Scotland and Ireland as a sort of Celtic Confederation. But I am totally happy with London, a cosmopolitan, harmonious outlier, certainly in terms of the last elections. If the English vote to leave the EU, I would propose London leave England and as a separate city state and stay in. Who says you can't be wise & funny at the same time?!
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Post by captainconfident on Jun 10, 2014 20:57:07 GMT
Thanks j, that's very kind. I'd put on my tin hat and braced myself for a strafing.
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Post by yorkshireman on Jun 10, 2014 23:26:24 GMT
Our Celtic neighbours exhibit their patriotism so what’s wrong with being proud to be English?
The standard liberal / left insult about the English being small minded xenophobic nimbys, might apply in the South East and the Home Counties but once you get out into the real world you will find that the English are a fair and open minded people.
For example, even I recognise that some good things come out of Lancashire, the road back to Yorkshire for instance. 
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Post by captainconfident on Jun 11, 2014 15:30:07 GMT
Standard liberal, thanks. Better liberal than conservative. Times change, better to go with the flow than try to wall off from reality. Something the church should also realise. But I do know that I was being grossly unfair. But if Scotland leaves the union, we would have to think a lot more about England and being English.
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j
Member of DD Central
Penguins are very misunderstood!
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Post by j on Jun 11, 2014 17:17:58 GMT
There's nothing wrong in being patriotic/nationalistic. They are both just words/terms to describe an emotion or feeling. Unfortunately, some of us, not a lot, use it to justify an extreme version of simple-minded thinking & disagreeing with how others of the same species live/think. We're all human being at the end of the day & bleed the same. Another rant....apologies....I get a bit excited about these things once I get going  |
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Post by chielamangus on Jun 11, 2014 17:36:02 GMT
One in four of the electorate voted for UKIP in the Euro elections. And in case you're thinking that people on this forum are morally superior and would never support such a party, I have to disillusion you. I was one of them.
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talked by some Scots in the course of this never ending referendum debate, I have begun to feel it best if they do go and paddle their own canoe if they really feel that they have been so oppressed in the past and genuinely feel emotion about lack of support for the colony in Panama.
