kaya
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,150
Likes: 718
|
Post by kaya on Feb 9, 2017 13:58:43 GMT
If there is one factor that stands out as a reason to continue to sell & reduce, it is loans that default within the first few months. We can all accept genuine business failures, but not this. The borrowers must consider FC to be an easy touch. I guess its called 'debt consolidation'. Today we have 27999 *** Project Services (risk band D), a building company with a nice slick website, but facing 'liquidation' after just two repayments. Feel free to list your favourite rip-off loans here.
|
|
blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on Feb 9, 2017 14:37:16 GMT
Funny, after a nasty experience with a retry (so far) I have been risk-reducing the FC portfolio in favour of the large A+ 10% project which should be safe for nine months, with good liquidity. An action reinforced by your post and by this from Ray Sunshine in another place:
forum.fundingcircle.com/discussion/13462/26822-a-call-centre-makes-3-repayments-then-cva-voluntary-arrangment#latest This an A+ loan!
I suppose, speaking more generally, the bad dudes may be finding ways to get round the computer with contingent credit events. Should I write down this large debtor before or after I apply for a loan? Shall I wait to see if this creditor take us to court before or after I apply for a loan? Is it time to allow someone else to benefit from a loan to my business rather than me? Perhaps the computer gives the cash, sorts as Gryffindor, and says "thank you for your business: please tell your friends about us". And they do. Are we beginning to understand what kicking the tyres means?
|
|
sl125
Member of DD Central
Posts: 85
Likes: 64
|
Post by sl125 on Feb 9, 2017 17:41:39 GMT
If there is one factor that stands out as a reason to continue to sell & reduce, it is loans that default within the first few months. We can all accept genuine business failures, but not this. The borrowers must consider FC to be an easy touch. I guess its called 'debt consolidation'. Today we have 27999 *** Project Services (risk band D), a building company with a nice slick website, but facing 'liquidation' after just two repayments. Feel free to list your favourite rip-off loans here. Technically, it is downgraded, not defaulted. Downgrades do not necessarily lead to defaults.
|
|
kaya
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,150
Likes: 718
|
Post by kaya on Feb 10, 2017 10:10:37 GMT
Accepted. Here's hoping...
But even so, the 'rip-off' principle still applies. These dodgy builders must have known exactly what they planned to do with their FC loan.
|
|
blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on Feb 10, 2017 10:59:39 GMT
Accepted. Here's hoping... But even so, the 'rip-off' principle still applies. These dodgy builders must have known exactly what they planned to do with their FC loan. Oh, no, no, no! Those builders had no inkling, when they took out the loan, that they might be talking about liquidation to FC after just two payments. If there were such foreseeable problems in the near future, then they would have told FC what might happen and FC would have told the lenders in a note, wouldn't they? If, hypothetically, a prospective borrower told FC about some large contingent liability, then FC would either reject the application or tell the bidders about it, wouldn't they? Surely they would not just accept the loan at a lower risk band and present the good historical figures - that would be misleading.
|
|
pip
Posts: 542
Likes: 725
|
Post by pip on Feb 10, 2017 14:24:34 GMT
Accepted. Here's hoping... But even so, the 'rip-off' principle still applies. These dodgy builders must have known exactly what they planned to do with their FC loan. Yes, of course you are probably right. But that's part of lending to small businesses. It happens, you can try to avoid it but it will happen. Believe me I have worked in banks and it happens all the time. If you can't accept it don't lend money to small businesses.
|
|
baz657
Member of DD Central
Posts: 500
Likes: 189
|
Post by baz657 on Feb 14, 2017 10:48:24 GMT
Another one #26991. £149,200 over 60 months. Two months later and the Coventry garage goes bust owing £608,170.78.
It looks to me, with the benefit of hindsight, that the business had failed well before taking out the FC loan.
|
|
kaya
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,150
Likes: 718
|
Post by kaya on Feb 14, 2017 11:06:37 GMT
Risk band?
|
|
pip
Posts: 542
Likes: 725
|
Post by pip on Feb 14, 2017 11:45:42 GMT
Another one #26991. £149,200 over 60 months. Two months later and the Coventry garage goes bust owing £608,170.78. It looks to me, with the benefit of hindsight, that the business had failed well before taking out the FC loan. Again you are probably right. But what's your point, that some small businesses will apply for loans when the directors already know they will almost certainly fail? That's lending to small businesses for you. Lessons to be learnt for FC on due diligience, probably, but that doesn't mean you will never get such loans. For me, I long ago added anybody who buys and sells cars on my list of 'don't go there', really it's getting a long list! My only point would be to say that I hope FC persues such cases with fervour. If you don't you get seen as a sucker. I have no idea in this case, but often such defaults are accompanied with some dodgy passing through of the money, so that it either pays off director loans or more usually finds it way to their 'partner', before the person declares bankruptcy.
|
|
|
Post by transo on Feb 14, 2017 11:57:07 GMT
A+, although their earlier loan taken out in July 2015 (which was repaid by the new loan) was only rated as a C.
|
|
blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on Feb 14, 2017 13:37:34 GMT
I wonder if they sniggered a bit when hearing about the upgrade to A+. FC Account Manager "Good news! Not only can we provide the replacement loan but your grading has gone up from C to A+. Your repayments will be considerably reduced." Borrower "Thank you, they certainly will."
From the FC detailed comment it seems that they are responding to concerns and letting lenders know that they will be going after those suspected of being bad dudes, early folders.
|
|
kaya
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,150
Likes: 718
|
Post by kaya on Feb 14, 2017 15:35:56 GMT
Do they go after the A & A+ loans a little more diligently than the D's and E's, do you reckon?
|
|
blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on Feb 15, 2017 11:18:24 GMT
Do they go after the A & A+ loans a little more diligently than the D's and E's, do you reckon? I would not know. I think they chase hard the ones where they think they can get hold of substantial recoveries, and those where the borrower is suspected of being a bad dude. They expect more E failures than A+, but I think any difference on chasing by band is probably influenced by the overall loss rate of that band compared with target. They no longer report by band on the statistics page, and so a veil has been drawn over that - particularly any possible large A+ or A property default which might occur (maybe the one which is currently £1.6M later than 300 days). We're going to need a bigger fan, as the saying goes, sorry no image!
|
|
metoo
Member of DD Central
Posts: 555
Likes: 432
|
Post by metoo on Feb 16, 2017 16:15:48 GMT
We're going to need a bigger fan, as the saying goes, sorry no image! Thankfully no image! I don't want to see this one hit the fan.
|
|