|
|
Post by GSV3MIaC on May 29, 2014 10:59:10 GMT
Just incase anyone is a) interested and b) unaware, there is yet another 7% interest only 2% cashback, 250k, punt on the housing bubble available (6313) over in FC land. I guess the upside is that you won't get knocked out by time travelling bids .. the downside it that it'll be as liquid as Arctic tar sands. This one is, however a mere 12 months.
|
|
|
|
Post by longjohn on May 29, 2014 12:12:10 GMT
Two and a half hours in and it's only 44% filled. Must be a slow day.
It'll be filled soon but not at the blink and you'll miss it speed of the previous secured loans.
John
|
|
|
|
Post by GSV3MIaC on May 29, 2014 12:34:18 GMT
Mayhap some of the big flippers have figured out that 2% upfront is not good compensation for losing the use of your cash for a long time. The heap of unsold parts from the previous 7% offerings is pretty damn high, although the 8.5% ones are trickling out at par .. I even sold one at 0.3% markup, one time. 8>.
|
|
is
Posts: 108 
Likes: 14
|
Post by is on May 29, 2014 13:02:06 GMT
Mayhap some of the big flippers have figured out that 2% upfront is not good compensation for losing the use of your cash for a long time. The heap of unsold parts from the previous 7% offerings is pretty damn high, although the 8.5% ones are trickling out at par .. I even sold one at 0.3% markup, one time. 8>. That was always going to be good value, being their first property loan out. I sold over £5k at up to +0.8 but then decided to keep the rest. With the launch of P2P Investment Trust (£197m) and the like, yields will come off several percent I expect. What would be interesting to see is the follow on tranches - 9M, 6M, 3M maturities. If the cashback stays these will fly. In any case cashback is much better than interest - just the tax effect alone makes the 2% worth 3.64%, before discounting, credit risk etc. that would bump it further.
|
|
blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on May 29, 2014 13:06:51 GMT
It is a slow week generally, a good week to buy. Whole loans seem to have fizzled out.
This property loan is interesting, setting aside the bubble issue. It's the 12 month term, which puts a limit on the time that flipper money will be held. If 'tired of flipping' or suffering from RSI finger one can go legit and take some time away from the computer. This loan, for a standard rate income tax payer, is about 7% after fees and income tax, more for higher rate. Equivalent of about 9.5% on an A+ unsecured loan without cashback. And no repayments of principal to keep placing. Tempting if the A+ is safe for a year.
|
|
|
|
Post by GentlemansFamilyFinances on May 29, 2014 14:25:45 GMT
The two other property loans that I have are exceedingly slow to sell!
With over 3000 loan parts on offer from the two of them - there is a real glut.
So taking a 1.75% gain isn't easy!
I'll not be bidding on this one - unless I sell some of the existing loan parts in the next hour or so...
Is there anywhere of checking loan part trades? I've only sold about 2% of my loan parts despite them being on the market and me refreshing the parts to keep them head of the AutoBid queue.
|
|
blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on May 29, 2014 14:36:25 GMT
Sorry to tell you that the autobid queue has been changed to random. So you are wasting your time relisting them before they time out. It was covered on the other forum, with FC eventually admitting that it had not always been as it now is.
So the slowness in this one filling is due to a need to be willing to hold it to term? Many of the buyers are recognisable names. The first bid on the list was indeed one who some call the Messiah - joining the moneylenders. There are some great names among lenders. I cannot repeat them as the list is not public.
|
|
|
|
Post by davee39 on May 29, 2014 14:56:16 GMT
I cannot see many parts selling at par when Autobid has already had a go at filling the loan. Some property loan parts are now at -1.1% as flippers under cut each other to clear stale loans. Future loan tranches are going to be progressively harder for FC to get away.
|
|
|
|
Post by GSV3MIaC on May 29, 2014 15:00:27 GMT
The reason for these being slow is a) all autobidders already filled their boots, so you can only sell at par to autobidders which were broke at the time, or which are new kids on the block, b) there is a huge pile of parts for sale (mostly at discount or par). With a supposedly random queue, you will wait a long time (my partner, I believe, sold one 7% one out of 'quite a few', so it's not impossible, just unlikely). Anyone wanting to buy manually - well why not buy the fresh ones at 2% (or one of the 8.5% discounted ones, which there were a few of around last I looked). A+ secure is probably a lot like A+ secure, although the rates vary. This assumes fresh ones WILL turn into a loan (the previous one was still lagging last time I looked).
Yep, I suspect these are going to turn into 'buy to keep', or at least 'buy to sell VERY SLOWLY' as new autobidders, or manual buyers, join FC.
As IS said, the rates are not that unattractive, just not 'gotta get me some' good (the 8.5% with 2.5% cashback .. now that was more like it).
|
|
|
|
Post by longjohn on May 29, 2014 15:40:46 GMT
There's still 50% available on 6313 now. In the last five hours another 9 loans have been added worth £455,000. Of these, 5 (worth £195,000) are already full and the others about 40% filled. So, there's money out there but 6313 doesn't appear attractive enough to get it.
Oh, Thanks Blender for the tip about auto-bid parts now being bought at random. I'll stop re-listing my 'at par' parts if they're still hanging around.
John
|
|
blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on May 30, 2014 10:12:50 GMT
Loan listed, filled, accepted, drawn down, cashback paid and interest accruing all in 24 hours. Full marks for that, FC and Borrower.
|
|
|
|
Post by GSV3MIaC on May 30, 2014 11:35:57 GMT
Yep, good job well done!! (You missed out 'listed on secondary market' (and some sold) too!)
It was slower to fill than previous fixed rate offerings, but still pretty fast for £250k-worth .. I guess they're a bit like the early C-s .. novelty value!! And 12 months is perhaps a more attractive proposition than 18 or more.
I wonder how long the 2% cashbacks will persist?
|
|
|
|
Post by aloanatlast on May 30, 2014 14:37:52 GMT
I wonder how long the 2% cashbacks will persist? I wonder what will happen when they don't.
They may end up all going on the whole-loan market.
|
|
blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on May 30, 2014 15:52:57 GMT
It was the 12 months that I found attractive. A 2% income-tax-free cashback on a loan which you have to hold only for twelve months max is valuable. The 2% will not last, but I presume that FC will be watching the rates on the secondary market and pulling the 2% back to 1% when they think they can, and then hopefully to 0%. If they are not having to pay an agent much then they can afford the cashback for a while. They really need growth, and quickly.
They cannot all be whole loans because that is a random selection - no picking and choosing FC have guaranteed, and that applies to both cherries and lemons.
I am pleased to have invested quite a lot of cash (for me) in A+ loans this week.
|
|
|
|
Post by aloanatlast on May 30, 2014 18:06:32 GMT
But if the auction doesn't fill, they get offered on the whole-loan market. And loans of this kind of size don't get filled without flippers, and flippers don't buy at 7% with no cashback.
Maybe there's a different type of lender lurking out there - more the Assetz type - who will take up these loans if they hang around long enough. But Assetz uses underwriters.
FC have said they'll underwrite the later tranches of multi-tranche loans. But I don't think they've said what they'll do next.
|
|
