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Post by robberbaron on Oct 14, 2017 6:45:50 GMT
And I think herein lies the problem with a lot of P2P platforms - the platforms cannot on the one hand present anonymous borrowers to lenders, and yet expect lenders to assess the risk of lending to said borrower. Or indeed not present monitoring reports in full. This isn't risky lending. It's blind gambling. It's supposed to be peer-to-peer, not peer-to-who-the-hell-knows. And the FCA is not helping. By forbidding platforms from investing their own funds in the loans it is ensuring that their interests are misaligned with investors. They have no skin in the game. All they care about is loan volume to earn their spread.
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Oct 14, 2017 9:18:17 GMT
The flip side of platforms investing in their pwn loans is increased risk of failure due to any resulting defaults; fca are banking on investor sentiment/market competition keeping platforms aligned with users. They can’t earn that spread if their record means no-one wants to do business with them.
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Post by brightspark on Oct 14, 2017 9:45:55 GMT
Contributors seem to be moving away from the subject. We are where we are with this loan so let's focus on it. Now exposed lenders need to be reminding Lendy either individually or corporately that they expect a robust approach from Lendy to the borrower. An active approach needs to followed where investors are regularly kept informed of developments - let's have these things out in the open where they can be seen and evaluated. Lenders need to be reassured that the borrower has been told in no uncertain terms that dire financial consequences will certainly befall them if they do not get their house in order.
Lenders need forcibly to remind Lendy that without us they don't have a business and for lenders confidence in the platform is everything. For those who have the contacts the Media can be a powerful lever to pull. This is a large loan and investors have much at stake. Lendy have had more than enough time to get their act together. So far the only inkling that lenders have had is that the equivalent of a reminder letter has been sent to the debtor followed by suspension from the secondary market.
I am becoming a little disappointed by others harking on about due diligence. Due diligence does not reveal all. Most particularly it does not reveal intention.
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GeorgeT
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Post by GeorgeT on Oct 14, 2017 10:25:03 GMT
Yes I have always felt DD was a bit of a red herring and some placed too much importance on it. A good personal investment strategy is more important in my opinion because that way you almost render DD redundant. It's more about getting your timing right. Even the worst loan can be a good loan for a few months.
As a general rule of thumb if a loan is always on the secondary market then it's best avoided. Also anything sub 12% and you are getting a bad deal that is not properly rewarding the risk you are taking.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Oct 14, 2017 10:38:27 GMT
I am becoming a little disappointed by others harking on about due diligence. Due diligence does not reveal all. Most particularly it does not reveal intention. Like a dagger in my heart DD reveals more than if you do no DD (and that can include intention - maybe not always, but you can't find what you don't look for). DD in this loan revealed quite a lot, and for me was to be avoided at all cost; simples The "intention" is an interesting note in this case. I think that we're not being told the entire truth with this loan, as the borrower most definitely intended on proceeding with the development as if you look at the planning you will note 2 PP applications to remove 2 conditions to allow for development to start, with plans timelines and all sorts of other required documents that certainly showed intention. As a footnote, if anyone wants to look at the above-noted PP, you'll see a good example of what information LY should be providing borrowers
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Oct 14, 2017 11:47:10 GMT
I am becoming a little disappointed by others harking on about due diligence. Due diligence does not reveal all. Most particularly it does not reveal intention. Like a dagger in my heart DD reveals more than if you do no DD (and that can include intention - maybe not always, but you can't find what you don't look for). DD in this loan revealed quite a lot, and for me was to be avoided at all cost; simples The "intention" is an interesting note in this case. I think that we're not being told the entire truth with this loan, as the borrower most definitely intended on proceeding with the development as if you look at the planning you will note 2 PP applications to remove 2 conditions to allow for development to start, with plans timelines and all sorts of other required documents that certainly showed intention. As a footnote, if anyone wants to look at the above-noted PP, you'll see a good example of what information LY should be providing borrowers Well, I can think of at least one borrowers past history was very easy to find, and while past performance is no guarantee for the future, it was in his case. An old saying about Leopards and spots springs to mind.
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fp
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Post by fp on Oct 14, 2017 11:52:36 GMT
<SNIP> I am becoming a little disappointed by others harking on about due diligence. Due diligence does not reveal all. Most particularly it does not reveal intention. Whilst Due Diligence may not reveal intention, it may well reveal a number of things that can help you draw your own conclusion about the worthiness of the borrower, the credibility of the exit plan or any number of other factors that will sway your mind as to whether to invest or not. I'm sorry to hear you or others may have money trapped in this investment, but I rest well at night knowing I didn't invest based on my findings about the borrower, associated people/companies, the viability of the development and my overall gut feeling of the loan. Platforms rarely provide the information you need to make an informed decision on the viability of a loan, and while ever people don't carry out DD, they will fill.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Oct 14, 2017 12:15:25 GMT
Platforms rarely provide the information you need to make an informed decision on the viability of a loan Whilst not true of all platforms it is true of too many, and it's one thing that really irks me. If the platforms don't know they should, and if they do know they should share with prospective investors. They need to up their game. EDIT: To expand on this, I would far rather spend my time thinking about the prospects for a business, sector, region, or development project etc than on establishing realistic valuations, checking charges at Companies House, digging out who the beneficial owners are, determining cross platform lending / multiple borrowings by connected parties, or unearthing the unedifying past of some borrowers. Still, at the moment, that seems to be the name of the game .
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GeorgeT
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Post by GeorgeT on Oct 14, 2017 16:14:40 GMT
I think I've invested in every single 12% loan that has defaulted or been suspended. I was in the garden centre, Somerset, Glos, Gateside, IOW etc etc. But I sold out before the brown stuff hit the fan. In my opinion this is a sounder investment strategy than pretending to yourself that you have enough information, knowledge and expertise to do meaningful and reliable DD.
Doing DD and then thinking it's safe to take your eye off the ball and hold to term end or near term end is very high risk. Grab some 12% for a few months and then sell out. Why take the risk. The risk of every loan increases as it ages. The risk is lowest in the first 3 months and highest in the last 3 months.
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Oct 14, 2017 16:17:40 GMT
The risk of every loan increases as it ages. No it doesn't, in general, for amortising loans the risk decreases as the loan ages.
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Oct 14, 2017 16:56:22 GMT
I think I've invested in every single 12% loan that has defaulted or been suspended. I was in the garden centre, Somerset, Glos, Gateside, IOW etc etc. But I sold out before the brown stuff hit the fan. In my opinion this is a sounder investment strategy than pretending to yourself that you have enough information, knowledge and expertise to do meaningful and reliable DD. Doing DD and then thinking it's safe to take your eye off the ball and hold to term end or near term end is very high risk. Grab some 12% for a few months and then sell out. Why take the risk. The risk of every loan increases as it ages. The risk is lowest in the first 3 months and highest in the last 3 months. The slight tiny flaw is that several loans have been suspended a long time before they hit negative days. re:12% loans: i would rather take a 10% low LTV, over a high LTV 12% loan of equal quality security. I don't see the obsession with rate! I even took some 9% loan with uber low LTV.
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Oct 14, 2017 16:59:14 GMT
The risk of every loan increases as it ages. No it doesn't, in general, for amortising loans the risk decreases as the loan ages. The risk on many development loans and refurbishment style loans can also decrease as the project advances. Especially if additional loans that rank behind your loan are issued.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Oct 14, 2017 17:07:12 GMT
re:12% loans: i would rather take a 10% low LTV, over a high LTV 12% loan of equal quality security. I don't see the obsession with rate! I even took some 9% loan with uber low LTV. I couldn't agree more .
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Oct 14, 2017 17:18:36 GMT
No it doesn't, in general, for amortising loans the risk decreases as the loan ages. The risk on many development loans and refurbishment style loans can also decrease as the project advances. Especially if additional loans that rank behind your loan are issued One of my favourite loans is on COL > BL00026 which ranks in front of all the development loans. In its case, the risk has most definitely decreased
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mary
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Post by mary on Oct 14, 2017 17:47:27 GMT
Seems to me that DFLs 08 and 12 are as near low risk (now) as they come given they are nearing completion and are mostly pre-sold, and at 41% and 55% LTV. I'm only not buying more as I'm at my max.
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