angrysaveruk
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Say No To T.D.S
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Post by angrysaveruk on Feb 24, 2017 11:30:23 GMT
I am currently reviewing my investments and one of my concerns currently is the possibility of a recession or finanical crisis over the next two years and the effect this will have on P2P. When I first got into P2P I thought that given there had recently been a financial crisis it would be a time before another shock took place and did not mind locking up money for 3-4 years. My current thinking is to keep my assets as liquid/safe as possible (bank deposists). Would like to hear anyone elses opinion on this.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Feb 24, 2017 12:08:16 GMT
Depends on what newspaper you read Personally, I don't think so. The UK economy has held up pretty well despite impending Brexit and forecasts are not bad (not good either - but "not bad" is better than impending doom!). The only negative being the falling pound (which some may argue is a good thing). Problem is, nobody can tell what the future will bring, and the world is more unpredictable than ever before.
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rick24
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Post by rick24 on Feb 24, 2017 12:12:21 GMT
I am currently reviewing my investments and one of my concerns currently is the possibility of a recession or finanical crisis over the next two years and the effect this will have on P2P. When I first got into P2P I thought that given there had recently been a financial crisis it would be a time before another shock took place and did not mind locking up money for 3-4 years. My current thinking is to keep my assets as liquid/safe as possible (bank deposists). Would like to hear anyone elses opinion on this. The biggest risk at the moment IMHO is a loss of confidence following the triggering of article 50. This could lead to consumers tightening their belts and a (temporary but steep?) drop in demand for property. If consumers don't spend, small businesses will suffer. There would be an increase in default rates. For contrarian equity investors, there could be opportunities on the stock market. Cash is a relatively safe asset....but vulnerable to inflation, especially if we see another currency downgrade. Of course, none of this might happen, so the best overall policy is diversification across asset classes and geographies.
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Feb 24, 2017 12:22:49 GMT
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Feb 24, 2017 12:26:17 GMT
I confidently predict there IS another recession on the way. However I've absolutely no idea when it will arrive. In the meantime, I plan to continue to make hay while the sun shines.
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Post by jackpease on Feb 24, 2017 12:59:00 GMT
The Times had a really incisive (not) headline yesterday 'Recession due but when?' - which pretty well sums up the hopelessness of predicting. I differ from many in that I do not think the 'security' of property is quite what it seems - some say the lack of security for SME p2p (eg FC) is bad - and property security good. IMHO the day after financial collapse SME p2p will be devalued a bit - but 'secured' property p2p will be largely unsellable. Jack P
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Feb 24, 2017 13:03:22 GMT
I see a US dollar crisis coming, a self inflicted one.
Few people have even heard of FATCA, yet it's massively damaging for the US economy and when the US catches a cold, we all sneeze. If you google FATCA you will find a lot of information but the only positive information you will find is from people with an agenda or no real understanding of what it is and what the effects will be, but in reality it's a bloody disaster for the USA. It certainly puts the USA in a very bad light indeed.
A brief glance will show a law designed to catch tax cheats, and we all like that, right?
Further inspection reveals an act of imperialistic bullying on an epic scale, massive costs forced on the globe to benefit nobody but the USA, huge incentive for the world to seek alternatives to the US dollar and a country that has crippled it's ability to compete in a global economy by effectively making it impossible for their citizens to lead a normal life outside of the USA, the latter already being problem before FATCA made sure those Americans can't just keep a low profile.
As Daniel Mitchell, Brian Garst said in their article, The Janus face of US tax policy, "For all intents and purposes, the U.S. government picked up a gun in a fit of misplaced fiscal rage, aimed it at its own head and declared, «Nobody move or the idiot gets it!"
You can google the article, and it's sobering reading from people who know what they are talking about.
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Post by oldnick on Feb 25, 2017 7:51:06 GMT
I still have Ton ⓉⓞⓃ 's financial crash protective head gear if anyone wants to borrow it.
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Post by charles on Feb 25, 2017 10:54:35 GMT
Greetings from Beijing, where the food will kill you if the pollution doesn't first.
While everyone is focusing on Trump and Europe, I think there's a decent chance the next big recession we face could be "Made in China".
While the country's growth is undeniable and there's a certain buzz in the air that sends a tingle down your spine, the size of the shadow banking industry is frankly quite frightening, and wait until you see the P2P industry there... No money for the 5% deposit (i.e. 95% LTV) on that ridiculously overpriced flat in Beijing/Shanghai? No problem. Just borrow it from a P2P platform. Who cares if you can't afford it? Nobody checks anyway. And everybody knows property prices only ever go up, so leverage away!
It's all too eerily familiar.
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Post by davee39 on Feb 25, 2017 13:08:12 GMT
Interest rate of 0.25%
Seems we have not finished with the last one
The 'recovery' has been driven by consumer spending and debt so it is ultimately unsustainable
I would expect RS and Zopa to be reasonably unscathed. All bets are off for FC and the high rate property platforms.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Feb 25, 2017 13:22:27 GMT
I would expect RS and Zopa to be reasonably unscathed. All bets are off for FC and the high rate property platforms. Please explain your logic, seems completely illogical!
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fp
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Post by fp on Feb 25, 2017 15:31:05 GMT
With inflation set to be a lot higher than the B of E claim due to fluctuations in exchange rates alone, and a bigger dip coming within the next month or so, I wouldn't be at all surprised if we see a dip later this year, but fingers crossed i'm wrong.
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angrysaveruk
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Say No To T.D.S
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Post by angrysaveruk on Feb 25, 2017 20:28:11 GMT
Thanks for the advice. I dont consider myself a natural risk taker or investor and if it wasnt for the zero interest rates I would have my money in the bank even if I was just earning 3%. I have made a fairly decent return on my dabbling in peer to peer but I am not sure how the sector will do if there is a platform failure from one of the major players. I believe the convential wisdom is that if you think there is a recession/downturn/economic shock coming you should put your money in cash and try to buy assets in the cheap after it occurs.I am not sure this will apply to the next financial crisis, could very well see further inflation/devaluation of money. The world seems to be headed into uncharted waters.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Feb 25, 2017 21:16:42 GMT
I would expect RS and Zopa to be reasonably unscathed. All bets are off for FC and the high rate property platforms. Please explain your logic, seems completely illogical! I think davee39 is dead right. There are two things to worry about. A recession and a crash in property prices. They are not quite the same thing. A recession is unlikely to be terminal. Default rates will tick up and there might be modest losses for a couple of years. But when a property crash comes, losses will all come at once and they will be highly correlated. Liquidity will disappear, especially for the riskier developments, and you could be locked in for a long time. Not many banks have gone bust because of a recession. But lots have gone bust because of bad property lending.
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Post by charles on Feb 26, 2017 11:30:50 GMT
Please explain your logic, seems completely illogical! I think davee39 is dead right. There are two things to worry about. A recession and a crash in property prices. They are not quite the same thing. A recession is unlikely to be terminal. Default rates will tick up and there might be modest losses for a couple of years. But when a property crash comes, losses will all come at once and they will be highly correlated. Liquidity will disappear, especially for the riskier developments, and you could be locked in for a long time. Not many banks have gone bust because of a recession. But lots have gone bust because of bad property lending. I wouldn't disagree with the view that a property correction of some kind is probably to be expected, and is perhaps even healthy. But to tar, feather and write off the entire property-backed lending industry, which I would consider Property Crowd a part of, strikes me as being unfair. Ultimately, as all rational investors do, we weigh the pros and cons, the risks and the rewards, and if you're offered a 12% yield on a 7-month bond that's senior secured against an investment grade real estate asset, on a conservative LTV of c.55%, in my perhaps biased opinion, it's still a pretty good investment, save for the "absolute Armageddon" scenario you paint in which property prices halve in a matter of months. I would refer you to Warren Buffett's recently released letter to shareholders in which he reminds us: It’s true, of course, that American owners of homes, autos and other assets have often borrowed heavily to finance their purchases. If an owner defaults, however, his or her asset does not disappear or lose its usefulness. Rather, ownership customarily passes to an American lending institution that then disposes of it to an American buyer. Our nation’s wealth remains intact. As Gertrude Stein put it, “Money is always there, but the pockets change.”
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