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Post by charles on Apr 15, 2017 13:57:04 GMT
We would like to confirm that our ISA admin fees have now been finalised and we are delighted to announce that the charges will be less than originally advised at 0.95% per annum with no additional charge for transferring in an ISA from your existing provider. I can give you some feedback on why I haven't invested. I'm looking for a home for ISA cash and I have looked on your website for the part that clearly describes the fees. I can't seem to find this crucial piece of information and life is too short for detective work when these figures should be front and centre. As a person with little spare time, trawling through P2P websites trying to find the most important information behind all the marketing guff is getting very tedious. Dear locutus, We do have the relevant ISA fees posted in three places across our website: the dealroom, the FAQs and the Terms & Conditions. We try to be as transparent as we can, but there are indeed sections of our website which are accessible to members only. The P2P Forum community are very helpful and I would kindly direct you threads such as this one to help in your DD process: p2pindependentforum.com/thread/7741/fca-authorised-ifisa-listKind regards, Charles
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locutus
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Post by locutus on Apr 15, 2017 14:52:17 GMT
I can give you some feedback on why I haven't invested. I'm looking for a home for ISA cash and I have looked on your website for the part that clearly describes the fees. I can't seem to find this crucial piece of information and life is too short for detective work when these figures should be front and centre. As a person with little spare time, trawling through P2P websites trying to find the most important information behind all the marketing guff is getting very tedious. Dear locutus , We do have the relevant ISA fees posted in three places across our website: the dealroom, the FAQs and the Terms & Conditions. We try to be as transparent as we can, but there are indeed sections of our website which are accessible to members only. The P2P Forum community are very helpful and I would kindly direct you threads such as this one to help in your DD process: p2pindependentforum.com/thread/7741/fca-authorised-ifisa-listKind regards, Charles Charles, with due respect, I think you're missing my point. I was providing constructive feedback to you. Your website should provide all the necessary information and not some thread on a forum. My experience will be the same for hundreds of other investors in my shoes and it seems like an easy fix to prevent lost custom. I took another look at your website and I can see no link from the ISA page for FAQs nor do the T&Cs provide the necessary information. Take it or leave it but it is my view that you are discouraging a lot of potential investors. Best of luck with your platform.
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david42
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Post by david42 on Apr 15, 2017 15:54:02 GMT
charles , I think the problem locutus is highlighting is that the ISA terms and conditions, including the ISA fees, are only accessible after you have registered. Why is this information hidden?
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Post by charles on Apr 15, 2017 16:35:25 GMT
Hi charles Given uptake is still "only" around 40%, I wondered if you had any further thoughts to the above? Have investors been saying why they haven't invested? Also at what point does PC give up and the underwriters cough up? Do you think this "failure" to fill your but will damage relationships with underwriters in future? By the way, I'm invested and tend to think this is indeed a good offering (especially when wrapped in an isa as I was able to do given I had loads of allowances left last year after raiding isas to buy my house!) I'm just interested more generally in the investor and underwriter dynamic here. Thanks Hi lendinglawyer, The take-up of the current deal is still well within our expectations, but the fundraise is almost twice the size of the previous deal, and the rate is slightly lower (even though this is justified by the quality of the underlying asset, in my opinion), so it is understandable it should take longer to fill. Those who underwrite each deal do so having done their own DD and are happy to hold their investments to maturity. Indeed, some prefer it -- after all, if you remember the first deal, crowd investors got an exceptional 27% IRR when the borrower redeemed the loan early. Kind regards, Charles
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metoo
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Post by metoo on Apr 17, 2017 3:27:55 GMT
We would like to confirm that our ISA admin fees have now been finalised and we are delighted to announce that the charges will be less than originally advised at 0.95% per annum with no additional charge for transferring in an ISA from your existing provider. Hi charles , no doubt Property Crowd have calibrated the ISA fee at a level you expect lenders to stomach. At 0.95% it is clearly targeted at higher rate income tax payers who may feel the pain of reduced returns most. Even so the admin fee amounts to taking nearly 1/4 of the tax saving, and if the fee is charged on matured capital awaiting reinvestment this would potentially be set against periods of 0% return. I note that not all p2p platforms plan to charge an ISA fee at all, and those that don't may actually be dealing with smaller ISA pots per lender. You may be correct in assuming that most of your lenders pay higher rate income tax, but there are many circumstances where relatively sophisticated investors do not fall into this bracket. In particular, some who rely on investment income have had time to build up large ISA pots and if they are basic rate tax payers as a result, they will be particularly aggrieved at giving up nearly half the tax saving as a fee! I am not clear how much admin is really involved in operating the ISA, though the level of the ISA fee seems to me excessive and opportunistic. I realise it is a business decision for you. For me it is a reason to look elsewhere for an IFISA.
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Post by charles on Apr 18, 2017 15:12:09 GMT
We would like to confirm that our ISA admin fees have now been finalised and we are delighted to announce that the charges will be less than originally advised at 0.95% per annum with no additional charge for transferring in an ISA from your existing provider. Hi charles , no doubt Property Crowd have calibrated the ISA fee at a level you expect lenders to stomach. At 0.95% it is clearly targeted at higher rate income tax payers who may feel the pain of reduced returns most. Even so the admin fee amounts to taking nearly 1/4 of the tax saving, and if the fee is charged on matured capital awaiting reinvestment this would potentially be set against periods of 0% return. I note that not all p2p platforms plan to charge an ISA fee at all, and those that don't may actually be dealing with smaller ISA pots per lender. You may be correct in assuming that most of your lenders pay higher rate income tax, but there are many circumstances where relatively sophisticated investors do not fall into this bracket. In particular, some who rely on investment income have had time to build up large ISA pots and if they are basic rate tax payers as a result, they will be particularly aggrieved at giving up nearly half the tax saving as a fee! I am not clear how much admin is really involved in operating the ISA, though the level of the ISA fee seems to me excessive and opportunistic. I realise it is a business decision for you. For me it is a reason to look elsewhere for an IFISA. Dear metoo, Thank you for your feedback. The fees issue is not a new one. Please see the attached thread --> p2pindependentforum.com/post/176285/threadI would reiterate once again that we in no way profit or benefit from these fees, they are the result of charges imposed by third party providers and we have done our best to negotiate the best deal for investors and mitigate them where possible. All platforms will incur additional admin fees related to the provision of IFISAs; but depending on the business model, some are able to subsidise or disguise that cost. At Property Crowd, we think it is better and fairer to both ISA and non-ISA investors that the relevant costs are made known, and to let investors make up their own mind whether our deals are worth investing in (or not). I would advise against making investment decisions just on the basis of whether a certain platform's IFISA charges fees or subsidises them. Instead, I think it is important to take a wholistic approach, considering factors such as net returns (after fees), quality of the deal/underlying asset, investment term, liquidity, risk involved, etc. I hope you will reconsider, and should you need any more information, our contact details can be found here www.propertycrowd.com/contact-us/Kind regards, Charles
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Post by charles on Apr 18, 2017 15:52:38 GMT
Charles, with due respect, I think you're missing my point. I was providing constructive feedback to you. Your website should provide all the necessary information and not some thread on a forum. My experience will be the same for hundreds of other investors in my shoes and it seems like an easy fix to prevent lost custom. I took another look at your website and I can see no link from the ISA page for FAQs nor do the T&Cs provide the necessary information. Take it or leave it but it is my view that you are discouraging a lot of potential investors. Best of luck with your platform. Dear locutus, We have made a small tweak to our IFISA page to incorporate your suggestions. www.propertycrowd.com/tax_free_property_crowdfunding_isa/I apologise for any crossed wires and would like to thank you again for your feedback, which was indeed valid and much appreciated. I hope you had a restful Easter break and wish you a great week ahead. Kind regards, Charles
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metoo
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Post by metoo on Apr 18, 2017 19:37:33 GMT
I would reiterate once again that we in no way profit or benefit from these fees, they are the result of charges imposed by third party providers and we have done our best to negotiate the best deal for investors and mitigate them where possible. All platforms will incur additional admin fees related to the provision of IFISAs; but depending on the business model, some are able to subsidise or disguise that cost. Hi charles , thanks for your reply. I do appreciate you have 3rd party costs in offering an ISA wrapper. I also think it is fair and reasonable to pass on the cost directly. The benefit of an ISA is heavily eroded by these charges though. I hope competition among such providers might improve the situation. I am amazed that with the use of technology, and the economies of scale for a specialist ISA administrator, the cost can possibly be so high. The early days carry the cost of setting up the service, few customers and uncertainty over demand., However, it seems extraordinary that a £20,000 ISA will cost £158+VAT for a mere wrapper. Of course, the lenders cannot shop around for the wrapper provider even if there are any alternatives. At 0.95%, this fee is a multiple of what the likes of Cofunds charge on stocks and shares ISAs at 0.23%, and they are providing a complex dealing and aggregation platform with thousands of funds across many providers, dividends and tax refunds to collect, dealing, reinvestments, frequent notifications by post, etc. For any investments yielding less than 10% after losses, the IFISA fee will take the majority of the tax saving for basic rate tax payers. I wish you well, and will continue to look at the opportunities Property Crowd provides inside or outside the ISA wrapper but, for now, the ISA charges are a real disappointment. I might even consider that paying the income tax could be better value!
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gibmike
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What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
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Post by gibmike on Apr 18, 2017 20:44:51 GMT
I am still waiting on other loans to clear before moving some of my funds into PC. As is always the case (end of Feb repayment) is now becoming end of April and beginning of June so my initial investment hasnt been made yet.
I like the platform and think if the flow of deals is maintained it has a decent return (something LendInvest could do with looking at).
Mike
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Post by d_saver on May 15, 2017 9:27:08 GMT
There's an update on this loan on their site (I got no notification as yet this was posted)
"15 May: The Principal Lender has advised that the forward sale agreement between the borrower and the FTSE 250 company is expected to be executed imminently. Further details of status of this shall be obtained shortly."
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Post by ptpinvestor on Jun 2, 2017 13:45:55 GMT
Hello all
I am new to the forum and this particular deal. I see it is still open. Had some basic questions answered by PC which I thought I would paste here.
1. Where does the expected maturity of September 2017 come from?
- This is when the underlying loan is due to be repaid.
Is this when the developer is expected to receive payment from the FTSE 250 company and therefore the loan is structured to repay at this point but not the bond ?
- Yes, and The bond will repay as soon as the underlying loan does
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2. Is the Feb 2018 maturity a back stop in case of delays/problems with the repayment
- Yes
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3. Am I right in thinking that the FTSE 250 company will have agreed a forward purchase agreement which will pay for the property in stages, £7mln being received as the first installment , which is expected to be used to refinance this bond
-Yes
Anyone know what happens if the Heads of Terms is not signed and the deal with the FTSE 250 Company falls through, does the transaction continue or is the money returned?
Thanks
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rs
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Post by rs on Jun 2, 2017 20:44:15 GMT
Hello all I am new to the forum and this particular deal. I see it is still open. Had some basic questions answered by PC which I thought I would paste here. 1. Where does the expected maturity of September 2017 come from? - This is when the underlying loan is due to be repaid. Is this when the developer is expected to receive payment from the FTSE 250 company and therefore the loan is structured to repay at this point but not the bond ? - Yes, and The bond will repay as soon as the underlying loan does . 2. Is the Feb 2018 maturity a back stop in case of delays/problems with the repayment - Yes . 3. Am I right in thinking that the FTSE 250 company will have agreed a forward purchase agreement which will pay for the property in stages, £7mln being received as the first installment , which is expected to be used to refinance this bond -Yes Anyone know what happens if the Heads of Terms is not signed and the deal with the FTSE 250 Company falls through, does the transaction continue or is the money returned? Thanks i did not get the update either and not sure where this update is on the pc website. No news yet on this I see.
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Post by d_saver on Jun 3, 2017 7:12:08 GMT
Hello all I am new to the forum and this particular deal. I see it is still open. Had some basic questions answered by PC which I thought I would paste here. 1. Where does the expected maturity of September 2017 come from? - This is when the underlying loan is due to be repaid. Is this when the developer is expected to receive payment from the FTSE 250 company and therefore the loan is structured to repay at this point but not the bond ? - Yes, and The bond will repay as soon as the underlying loan does . 2. Is the Feb 2018 maturity a back stop in case of delays/problems with the repayment - Yes . 3. Am I right in thinking that the FTSE 250 company will have agreed a forward purchase agreement which will pay for the property in stages, £7mln being received as the first installment , which is expected to be used to refinance this bond -Yes Anyone know what happens if the Heads of Terms is not signed and the deal with the FTSE 250 Company falls through, does the transaction continue or is the money returned? Thanks i did not get the update either and not sure where this update is on the pc website. No news yet on this I see. Go to deal room for loan. Scroll to very bottom of page. Updates are there.
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rs
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Post by rs on Jun 3, 2017 13:38:27 GMT
i did not get the update either and not sure where this update is on the pc website. No news yet on this I see. Go to deal room for loan. Scroll to very bottom of page. Updates are there. thnx seen the update now. Hopefully loan will pay out time.
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Post by lendinglawyer on Jun 29, 2017 10:27:48 GMT
Hi charles, wondering if you have an update on the status of the forward sale agreement, please? Thank you. |
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