david42
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Post by david42 on Mar 16, 2017 0:14:08 GMT
Property Crowd ISA Launched today
Charge 1% pa
Flexible yes
Transfers In yes, but after 6th April 2017 only
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david42
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Post by david42 on Mar 16, 2017 0:15:29 GMT
charles , where do we get an ISA application form? I cannot find the form on the website. Thank you
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 16, 2017 0:47:02 GMT
charles , where do we get an ISA application form? I cannot find the form on the website. Thank you Go to your dashboard, two tabs at top, one for standard account, one for ISA account, click on the ISA one and the application appears I cant see where it says no transfers until after new financial year. The last note about fee structure in the new financial year is worrying
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david42
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Post by david42 on Mar 16, 2017 8:21:46 GMT
Thank you, IlMoro. I had not realised that text was a link. Here is the link for those like me who struggle to find it: ISA applicationThe last note about fee structure in the new financial year is worrying. Changes to the fee structure do not affect a decision to invest now because the tarif section at the end of the terms and conditions says any new fee structure would only apply to investments made after 5th April 2007: "The following interim fee charges will apply for investments made before 5th April 2017.
An annual fee of 1% plus VAT per annum will be charged on the amount invested in your Property Crowd ISA. The fee shall be applied pro-rata for periods only where the account has a positive balance of cash and/or securities and shall be applied to the actual account balance. Such pro-rata annual fee amount shall be deducted from the amount returned to your ISA upon redemption of any bonds held in your ISA.
*A new fee tariff that will apply after 5th April 2017. We will publish details of the new fee tariff in this section once details are final."I cant see where it says no transfers until after new financial year. Half way down the FAQs they say they won't accept ISA transfers until after 7 April: "Can I transfer money held by another ISA provider to my new Property Crowd ISA?
You can transfer your ISA from one provider to another, and from one kind of ISA to another (e.g. from a Cash ISA to an Innovative Finance ISA), at any time. Transfers must be made in cash, you will not be able to appoint another ISA manager to hold bonds issued on Property Crowd and you cannot transfer other investments into your Property Crowd ISA.
*Please note that we intend to only accept ISA transfer applications after 7th April 2017. " |
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 16, 2017 9:52:34 GMT
Thank you, IlMoro. I had not realised that text was a link. Here is the link for those like me who struggle to find it: ISA applicationThe last note about fee structure in the new financial year is worrying. Changes to the fee structure do not affect a decision to invest now because the tarif section at the end of the terms and conditions says any new fee structure would only apply to investments made after 5th April 2007: "The following interim fee charges will apply for investments made before 5th April 2017.
An annual fee of 1% plus VAT per annum will be charged on the amount invested in your Property Crowd ISA. The fee shall be applied pro-rata for periods only where the account has a positive balance of cash and/or securities and shall be applied to the actual account balance. Such pro-rata annual fee amount shall be deducted from the amount returned to your ISA upon redemption of any bonds held in your ISA.
*A new fee tariff that will apply after 5th April 2017. We will publish details of the new fee tariff in this section once details are final."I cant see where it says no transfers until after new financial year. Half way down the FAQs they say they won't accept ISA transfers until after 7 April: "Can I transfer money held by another ISA provider to my new Property Crowd ISA?
You can transfer your ISA from one provider to another, and from one kind of ISA to another (e.g. from a Cash ISA to an Innovative Finance ISA), at any time. Transfers must be made in cash, you will not be able to appoint another ISA manager to hold bonds issued on Property Crowd and you cannot transfer other investments into your Property Crowd ISA.
*Please note that we intend to only accept ISA transfer applications after 7th April 2017. "Ah, that last bit doesnt appear in T&Cs which I was looking at. With regard fees, fine if you invest now and leave subscription invested but what about if bond repays and no other opportunity to reinvest in. Leave cash earning nothing & accruing fees or flex out, would it be liable to new fee structure when flexed back in? Seems a little vague which worries me when it comes to finacial promotions, less than a month of certainty. Feels like theyve rush launched before product fully worked out.
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david42
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Post by david42 on Mar 16, 2017 14:31:56 GMT
With regard fees, fine if you invest now and leave subscription invested but what about if bond repays and no other opportunity to reinvest in. Leave cash earning nothing & accruing fees or flex out, would it be liable to new fee structure when flexed back in? Seems a little vague which worries me when it comes to finacial promotions, less than a month of certainty. Feels like theyve rush launched before product fully worked out. It is a flexible ISA, so I plan to withdraw any idle cash. The tarif section at the end of the terms and conditions is quite explicit that the 1% fee is applied only to the " actual account balance" and it is " applied pro-rata for periods only where the account has a positive balance of cash and/or securities". This reads to me as if they are expecting us to operate the account so that we do not leave idle cash there, so that we only pay the 1% fee while we have cash usefully invested in a loan. While waiting for a loan, all we would be missing out on is the opportunity cost of not using our ISA allowance on another platform.
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phil
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Post by phil on Mar 16, 2017 16:36:55 GMT
So if a Property Crowd investor has an average of £12,000 in his ISA throughout the year he will pay £120 in fees?
For a basic rate taxpayer that would amount to half of their tax saving and for a higher rate taxpayer a quarter of their tax saving at average returns of 10 p.a.
As for other platforms' ISAs, I've only looked at Landlord Invest so far but they do their ISA free of any charges.
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Mar 17, 2017 19:00:58 GMT
So if a Property Crowd investor has an average of £12,000 in his ISA throughout the year he will pay £120 in fees? For a basic rate taxpayer that would amount to half of their tax saving and for a higher rate taxpayer a quarter of their tax saving at average returns of 10 p.a. As for other platforms' ISAs, I've only looked at Landlord Invest so far but they do their ISA free of any charges. I don't understand why they would charge a fee. I will just use a site that doesn't charge a fee. Slightly disappointed. I read the T&C's and they suggested PC doesn't charge fees. I'm not registered yet. "8. Fees payable by you and other charges we receive 8.1 Property Crowd does not charge fees directly to investors. We generally receive fees from the company that issues the securities (the “Issuer”) for subscriptions on Property Crowd. For example, Property Crowd may receive a bond placement fee and/or a bond closing fee from the Issuer for a debt investment."
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david42
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Post by david42 on Mar 17, 2017 22:08:18 GMT
The IFISA fees are specified at the bottom of the IFISA terms and conditions . The link to the IFISA terms and conditions does not seem to be visible until you register. |
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wysiati
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Post by wysiati on Mar 17, 2017 23:45:50 GMT
The fee is 1% plus VAT so it'd be £144 on a £12,000 investment rather than £120. Expect a fee hike for the IFISA wrapper to 1.5% + VAT for the new tax year (Source: Property Crowd).
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Post by charles on Mar 18, 2017 13:15:49 GMT
So if a Property Crowd investor has an average of £12,000 in his ISA throughout the year he will pay £120 in fees? For a basic rate taxpayer that would amount to half of their tax saving and for a higher rate taxpayer a quarter of their tax saving at average returns of 10 p.a. As for other platforms' ISAs, I've only looked at Landlord Invest so far but they do their ISA free of any charges. , Liz , david42 , paul123 , wysiati There are quite a few points being made here, so I'll try to address them one by one and hopefully not miss anything. Yes, the Property Crowd ISA does come with fees, but I would like to make it absolutely clear that we in no way profit or benefit from this. These fees reflect exactly the cost charged by the underlying ISA manager, which we pass on unaltered to investors. Depending on the business model, other platforms may choose to absorb it (i.e. loss-leading), or disguise it in the form of lower net yields, or use considerable fees/spreads from elsewhere to make up the difference. Ultimately, there is an administrative cost that, as you understand, all platforms who offer IFISAs will have to incur and we have simply been more upfront about it. I would make the case that the marginal gain due to tax savings (given our double-digit bond yields) substantially outweighs the marginal cost due to ISA fees, and that ours still represents, in my admittedly biased opinion, a superior investment proposition on a risk-adjusted basis (given it's senior secured exposure on institutional grade UK real estate assets you're getting). I hope that clears things up. Hope everyone's having a good weekend, and please be advised that we have a live deal yielding 10.2% at the moment. Regards, Charles
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Mar 18, 2017 14:52:42 GMT
I would have thought it would make sense for the platform to absorb the fee, as they can reclaim the VAT and adjust rates accordingly.
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Mar 18, 2017 16:42:03 GMT
So if a Property Crowd investor has an average of £12,000 in his ISA throughout the year he will pay £120 in fees? For a basic rate taxpayer that would amount to half of their tax saving and for a higher rate taxpayer a quarter of their tax saving at average returns of 10 p.a. As for other platforms' ISAs, I've only looked at Landlord Invest so far but they do their ISA free of any charges. , Liz , david42 , paul123 , wysiati There are quite a few points being made here, so I'll try to address them one by one and hopefully not miss anything. Yes, the Property Crowd ISA does come with fees, but I would like to make it absolutely clear that we in no way profit or benefit from this. These fees reflect exactly the cost charged by the underlying ISA manager, which we pass on unaltered to investors. Depending on the business model, other platforms may choose to absorb it (i.e. loss-leading), or disguise it in the form of lower net yields, or use considerable fees/spreads from elsewhere to make up the difference. Ultimately, there is an administrative cost that, as you understand, all platforms who offer IFISAs will have to incur and we have simply been more upfront about it. I would make the case that the marginal gain due to tax savings (given our double-digit bond yields) substantially outweighs the marginal cost due to ISA fees, and that ours still represents, in my admittedly biased opinion, a superior investment proposition on a risk-adjusted basis (given it's senior secured exposure on institutional grade UK real estate assets you're getting). I hope that clears things up. Hope everyone's having a good weekend, and please be advised that we have a live deal yielding 10.2% at the moment. Regards, Charles Hi Charles, Could you expand on what 'underlying ISA manager' means, why they might be needed, what they actually do and why the platform couldn't do this? May I ask what proportion of your business has been gained through IFISA compared to non IFISA investment?
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Post by charles on Mar 18, 2017 17:47:18 GMT
I would have thought it would make sense for the platform to absorb the fee, as they can reclaim the VAT and adjust rates accordingly. , unfortunately, I am fairly certain we cannot reclaim VAT on a fee we don't earn.
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Post by onion12 on Mar 18, 2017 19:41:08 GMT
charles - on another tack, can your bonds be purchased via a platform held ISA eg Hargreaves Lansdowne? I like your thinking leopardcat ISA or SIPP through HL would be quite handy I have funds waiting to deploy there I think it could be possible P2p invest and fund let you use sipp and I had many emails going through options most of which came out as full sipp with big charges but they did say they have used fidelity for clients so I would think HL might be worth looking into
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