blender
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Post by blender on Apr 12, 2017 9:35:22 GMT
It worked for me as well, but not for FC's Investment Trust, it seems. As a result I actually increased my FC funds, but only to get onto the tail of a 10% 16 month property loan, before the long decline. Without property loans they could move to Autobid and Autosale only on the partial board. That would simplify the site and reduce the management costs. Could be sold as fairer and safer for the unsophisticated. Others will have left.
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jayjay
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Post by jayjay on Apr 12, 2017 11:07:26 GMT
I must admit I was expecting, until this announcement, the most likely evolution of the Flying Circus model was to go over to 100% autobid/autosale.
Currently autobidders are potentially over-exposed to a very heavy dose of 2 month-to-run property loans. In the case of any downturn in the property market this could be very serious.
The current model offered guaranteed prepaid interest and an almost guaranteed exit at two months for us property investors. It was unsustainable and might even have been a barrier to FCA approval.
The two classes of loan, secured and unsecured, did not fit together and cannot really be Banded together. Killing off property loans certainly solves this issue (by 2018) - but true to form seems a rather unimaginative solution and I believe will hurt FC quite a lot in the long run.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Apr 12, 2017 11:44:12 GMT
FC have a long history of unimaginative solutions to get around issues with the site's design and performance. They've had plenty of more imaginative suggestions, but have never managed to actually implement one ('want to level the playing field .. run autobodge before allowing the bots at the loans' for instance .. that would have worked even back in the 'bidding/auction' days).
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Post by yorkshireman on Apr 12, 2017 15:05:49 GMT
“expecting to stop all lending by mid-2018.”
Does that include existing loans with 18 months or longer still to run?
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metoo
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Post by metoo on Apr 12, 2017 15:15:11 GMT
“expecting to stop all lending by mid-2018.” Does that include existing loans with 18 months or longer still to run? I would guess they mean new loan tranches on existing developments they are already committed to will continue to be listed for bids which will take until around mid-2018 with a dwindling supply as projects reach their term. Once lent, loans will run their course, however long that takes.
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blender
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Post by blender on Apr 12, 2017 16:29:23 GMT
I must admit I was expecting, until this announcement, the most likely evolution of the Flying Circus model was to go over to 100% autobid/autosale. Currently autobidders are potentially over-exposed to a very heavy dose of 2 month-to-run property loans. In the case of any downturn in the property market this could be very serious. The current model offered guaranteed prepaid interest and an almost guaranteed exit at two months for us property investors. It was unsustainable and might even have been a barrier to FCA approval. The two classes of loan, secured and unsecured, did not fit together and cannot really be Banded together. Killing off property loans certainly solves this issue (by 2018) - but true to form seems a rather unimaginative solution and I believe will hurt FC quite a lot in the long run. Yes I did wonder about the FCA dimension but had no evidence. There must be a problem with the full approval. They are mixing the trust with the retail, and the loan book is not homogeneous with one set of performance and risk statistics that applies to both. The withdrawal of the trust from property has compounded that - they would have to split the book performance analysis. Also within the partial they mix the consumer lender of Autobid, with the sophisticated bot flippers and property traders, and allow the Autobiddies to take the endgame risk on property, as you say. Without property and manual bidders/sellers they only have to deal with the setandforgetters, who do not trouble customers services, poke holes in the loan assessments and information, and complain about the defaults and recoveries - and definitely do not put beastly comments on forums. That all costs money and reputation. With Autobid/autosale the pitch can go, as can most of the interaction on failing loans.
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Post by df on Apr 12, 2017 22:49:29 GMT
I guess the next question is which, if any, site would people recommend as an alternate venue with good deal flow and liquidity for property lending? Try Funding Secure.
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Post by catalist on Apr 13, 2017 7:36:48 GMT
(Sort of reminds me of press releases that announce the departure of a key executive who leaves a company to spend more time with his family. ) To meet the goal of offering more small business loans sounds bogus to me. There must be some core, undisclosed reason for FC getting out of property development. Are such loans not profitable? Are they too much hassle? Do they not fit-in with FCA approval? This of course can be the case. But I think it is more likely that as the industry gradually matures (at least in UK, although still far from maturity), platforms want to strengthen their positions in their core business segments. Funding Circle move to focus on SME lending is understandable as property lending (similar to consumer lending) is quite different segment. And property lending has never been a significant part of FC portfolio anyway. Catalist
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mikeb
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Post by mikeb on Apr 14, 2017 17:18:10 GMT
Property lending may not be a significant part of FC's portfolio, but for some lenders it is!
... ahead of defaulted SME loans, late SME loans, downgraded SME loans, and those rare beasts: On time fully paid up SME loans!
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jo
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Post by jo on Apr 16, 2017 16:29:55 GMT
I'm suspect my subconscious is secretly happy at this decision. I'm convinced it's been uneasy these past few years as my concentration risk has continued to ramp-up in (what's become) a quite frothy sector.
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metoo
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Post by metoo on Apr 16, 2017 20:09:04 GMT
I'm suspect my subconscious is secretly happy at this decision. I'm convinced it's been uneasy these past few years as my concentration risk has continued to ramp-up in (what's become) a quite frothy sector. My subconscious is having the opposite reaction - it fears I will be tempted to take too much risk as a result of losing access to the slice of loans that seemed fairly safe. Many forumites enjoy chasing high returns, knowing there is a fair degree of risk of losing some capital in adverse conditions despite property security. I rather liked a proportion of boring low LTV loans in ordinary houses which still carried an attractive rate of interest. Where will I be able to get sleep-easy secured loans at 7-9% interest (after charges) plus SM premiums in future? Will some company move in to fill the gap?
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Post by peerlessperil on Apr 16, 2017 23:48:15 GMT
No great loss from my perspective as I decided from the outset to steer clear of property on Funding Cessation - there is little point to secured lending if the security is hardly ever enforced?
I do have a small, highy diversified allocation to unsecured SME loans - primarily as a platform diversifier. Have to admit I take my own view on the accounts and pretty much ignore the credit ratings they concoct (which seem highly volatile and rather random).
However....getting too hung up on security can be a mistake. Whilst they are very different markets to P2P & SME lending, it is worth recalling that through most of the credit crisis conventional investment grade corporate bonds (largely unsecured) were a much more comfortable place to be than better-rated ABS/MBS/CMBS (asset/mortgage-backed securities).
When the proverbial hits the fan a property with no tenant is potentially worthless - and if property prices trend downwards the confidence in valuations evaporates very quickly. As QE unwinds there is a scenario whereby property prices fall but the economy doesn't nosedive and SME cashflows prove more resilient than expected (although I would probably file that one in the wishful thinking folder).
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Apr 21, 2017 10:57:25 GMT
A couple of fairly low LTV refinances (59%-61%) on the primary marketplace at the moment, both A+ @ 9.0%, C****r and C****m. Might be worth a look, IMO.
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Post by carpecyprinidae on Apr 22, 2017 9:04:59 GMT
The combination of this announcement by FC and recent property market news regarding London - which I was excessively exposed to - led me to decide to get out. Over the last 8 days I've disposed of a high-4-figure sum in FC property loans, most of it at good markups. I've made good money in here - my total net gains just in FC were nearly 10% of my FC balance even after defaults and I've only been in for about 2 years.
I think I've tried my luck quite far enough. I've been using FC to save for a deposit on a house... I'm within a year of having enough now so moving everything to lower risk, lower-return savings. Most likely a split between savings accounts and the Rolling market on Ratesetter, although i have more research to do before committing to that.
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markr
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Post by markr on Apr 25, 2017 21:56:50 GMT
Most likely a split between savings accounts and the Rolling market on Ratesetter, although i have more research to do before committing to that. I'd suggest you include having a look at Assetz's instant access and 30 day accounts in your research. There are pros and cons compared to RS, so as always check what's right for you, but I think they're a good offering at the moment with a bonus rate for new accounts.
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