pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Apr 23, 2017 17:15:07 GMT
...Ha. We seem to be going round in circles here. Some dont think it is permitted, others, including FS based on advice received, think it is... Where do they say this? Not in this thread that I can see.
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mason
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Post by mason on Apr 23, 2017 17:39:14 GMT
As I mentioned a few posts earlier in this thread, the subject of that clause in the regulation is not specified within that part of the text, but using the context set earlier in the same regulation, it appears to be the account manager and not the investor. So, the ISA manager must not purchase investments from the investor such that they become investments within the ISA. This is made clearer in paragraph 10.5 of the ISA Guidance Notes, where the text is almost identical, but "Managers" is specified. From my own reading of both documents, I do not believe the situation with respect to direct purchases is addressed in either. Sorry, I missed your earlier post but I think you are mistaken. As I understand it, the distinction that you are trying to make does not exist, because all transactions within an ISA wrapper are undertaken by the account manager and not by the ISA account holder, who is merely instructing the manager. Having looked at some of the language used elsewhere in the document, I think I am now in agreement with you. There are some clear examples written in the form of the investor instructing and the manager executing... which now means I've changed my mind twice, and am by no means confident it won't happen again. Another thing I note is that, in the guidance notes, a distinction is made between what an investor can and cannot do, and what a manager can and cannot do. If the above is being interpreted correctly, it would seem that the manager is prohibited from executing such an instruction, which would make it contingent upon them to make at least some effort to block such instructions. So it is interesting that FS has not done so when it is such an obvious and easy thing to implement.
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stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on Apr 23, 2017 19:13:53 GMT
A gamer can see which is their loan part as it highlights on the sm screen. They know its illegal to buy your own loans. They have created a loss for tax purposes on their main account through the transaction. Actually, if you have loan parts up for sale in your non-ISA account, they are not highlighted when viewing from your ISA account. If it is "illegal" to buy your own loans, then I don't think it can be assumed anyone doing so knows this. FS apparently believes it is permissible based on the advice it has received. I've looked quite hard for unambiguous information about this to no avail. On losses for tax purposes, my understanding is that gains/losses made on trading loan parts are not subject to CGT, but if someone tried to claim tax relief for a loss they incurred while trading with their own ISA account, then that would be madness. The most likely restriction would be to block all purchases of loans between accounts held by the same investor. I wouldn't consider that very severe. I think that gamers would have the secondary market screen open where it highlights your own loans in the listing for standard accounts. This would be true if hiding your activity just below the max discounts. You then can avoid making the "mistakes". As I am currently in rundown phase on fs I will not be opening an ifisa there to check. S
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stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on Apr 23, 2017 19:36:00 GMT
Sorry, I missed your earlier post but I think you are mistaken. As I understand it, the distinction that you are trying to make does not exist, because all transactions within an ISA wrapper are undertaken by the account manager and not by the ISA account holder, who is merely instructing the manager. Having looked at some of the language used elsewhere in the document, I think I am now in agreement with you. There are some clear examples written in the form of the investor instructing and the manager executing... which now means I've changed my mind twice, and am by no means confident it won't happen again. Another thing I note is that, in the guidance notes, a distinction is made between what an investor can and cannot do, and what a manager can and cannot do. If the above is being interpreted correctly, it would seem that the manager is prohibited from executing such an instruction, which would make it contingent upon them to make at least some effort to block such instructions. So it is interesting that FS has not done so when it is such an obvious and easy thing to implement. Not obvious for FS if between unadvised connected accounts. I agree though for someone not being able to purchase their own part inadvertantly.
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mason
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Post by mason on Apr 23, 2017 20:10:32 GMT
mason I think that gamers would have the secondary market screen open where it highlights your own loans in the listing for standard accounts. This would be true if hiding your activity just below the max discounts. You then can avoid making the "mistakes". As I am currently in rundown phase on fs I will not be opening an ifisa there to check. S It depends what you mean by "gamers", but those who are setting extreme discounts will have no trouble identifying their offer from their ISA account. For those who set a reasonable market price to intentionally purchase their loan part within their ISA, they only need to make the offer unique from all the others by careful choice of the amount to offer and/or premium/discount. Not obvious for FS if between unadvised connected accounts. I agree though for someone not being able to purchase their own part inadvertantly. It is true that FS will not necessarily know which accounts are owned by spouses (and it is only married couples and civil partners to whom this regulation applies). It is unclear what checks are being done at the point accounts are opened. HMRC may have this information on file and FS has a need to know. FS certainly will be able to identify all accounts that belong to the same individual and, if they must not execute trades between those accounts, then that is very easily prevented. And foreseeable. Which brings me back to ilmoro 's statement about FS thinking such trades are permissible based on the advice it received. We can speculate until the cows come home, but if HMRC has already been consulted on this point and dispensed advice, then I'm not going to argue against it.
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fasty
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Post by fasty on Apr 23, 2017 21:22:32 GMT
How long did it take folks to get their FS ISA account approved? I applied on day one but not a sausage from them yet. The main account appears usable but I have no inclination to use it... Just for reference, minor glitch with my ISA registration has already been fixed following a mail to FS customer services. Impressive responsiveness - Don't these guys get a break on Sundays?
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Apr 23, 2017 22:04:35 GMT
I also can report that in the early hours of Sunday I sent a request to FS -- and they dealt with it by lunchtime. It didn't have anything to do with my IFISA, so perhaps this comment doesn't belong in this thread, but the point is that I have had great customer service from FS. Full marks to fundingsecure for that. |
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markr
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Post by markr on Apr 23, 2017 22:20:29 GMT
How long did it take folks to get their FS ISA account approved? I applied on day one but not a sausage from them yet. The main account appears usable but I have no inclination to use it... Mine took 2 days, I applied on 18th and was approved on 20th.
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fp
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Post by fp on Apr 24, 2017 8:40:54 GMT
Mine took 1 hr 18 minutes to approve if my emails are anything to go by.
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09dolphin
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Post by 09dolphin on Apr 24, 2017 9:05:52 GMT
I applied for the IFISA in the evening of the 2nd day it became available and my acceptance was the following morning about lunchtime.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Apr 24, 2017 9:11:40 GMT
I applied on Bank Holiday Monday and it was approved by Tuesday afternoon.
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Apr 24, 2017 9:26:23 GMT
I had no idea what an ISA was and had to google for the basics. Been away a loooooong time! Could there be any pitfall with taking out one of these? I still don't really understand it all. Off googling again.....
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Post by dan1 on Apr 24, 2017 9:35:24 GMT
I had no idea what an ISA was and had to google for the basics. Been away a loooooong time! Could there be any pitfall with taking out one of these? I still don't really understand it all. Off googling again..... There are no pitfalls as such but there are some restrictions (for example, operating a S&S ISA is often more expensive than a taxable trading account). If you're new to ISAs then I suggest you take time to read up on the types on offer and the rules associated with each. They are a boon for UK residents in that capital gains and income are free of tax and perhaps even better you don't need to inform HMRC. The annual contribution limit has shot up in recent years and now stands at £20k across all types of ISA. Choose which investments you'd like to shield in an ISA from the taxman carefully. Remember, you have interest and dividend allowances on top of the ISA. Tax efficiency is the best risk-free return you'll make.
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Apr 24, 2017 9:50:11 GMT
I had no idea what an ISA was and had to google for the basics. Been away a loooooong time! Could there be any pitfall with taking out one of these? I still don't really understand it all. Off googling again..... There are no pitfalls as such but there are some restrictions (for example, operating a S&S ISA is often more expensive than a taxable trading account). If you're new to ISAs then I suggest you take time to read up on the types on offer and the rules associated with each. They are a boon for UK residents in that capital gains and income are free of tax and perhaps even better you don't need to inform HMRC. The annual contribution limit has shot up in recent years and now stands at £20k across all types of ISA. Choose which investments you'd like to shield in an ISA from the taxman carefully. Remember, you have interest and dividend allowances on top of the ISA. Tax efficiency is the best risk-free return you'll make. Thanks dan. Just getting my head around this now. Looks fairly straightforward, though I'm sure there is something I could get wrong, there always is!
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Post by dan1 on Apr 24, 2017 9:52:11 GMT
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