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Post by snowdrop800 on Apr 18, 2017 19:09:38 GMT
So, having a shiny new FS IFISA - any thoughts on the best way to use the secondary market to transfer my existing loans into it?
I've not made use of the SM to any great extent, and haven't sold anything to date. I have read the previous detail around the taxation points of using it.
Is it as simple as putting my loan part(s) up for sale and then buying them back in the IFISA (appreciate I'll need to put cash into the IFISA first). Can I easily identify 'my' loan parts on the SM? Can I sell them at a discount (and thus boost the amount in my IFISA)?
Many thanks.
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fp
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Post by fp on Apr 18, 2017 19:11:14 GMT
Your loan parts should be highlighted when you search the loan on the secondary market
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Apr 18, 2017 19:15:13 GMT
So, having a shiny new FS IFISA - any thoughts on the best way to use the secondary market to transfer my existing loans into it? I've not made use of the SM to any great extent, and haven't sold anything to date. I have read the previous detail around the taxation points of using it. Is it as simple as putting my loan part(s) up for sale and then buying them back in the IFISA (appreciate I'll need to put cash into the IFISA first). Can I easily identify 'my' loan parts on the SM? Can I sell them at a discount (and thus boost the amount in my IFISA)? Many thanks. Does it matter if you buy your own loan parts? Sell yours at small discount and buy someone else's at a bigger discount (if possible) with your IFISA cash. (If you put your own parts up at too large a discount you'll fail because I shall have bought them .)
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mason
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Post by mason on Apr 18, 2017 19:15:40 GMT
Yes, I believe your understanding is correct, although my IF ISA is not yet open, so I can only go by how the 'normal' account works. You may or may not be able to identify your own loan parts from one account within the other, but if you can't then it should be easy enough to make your amount offered and discount/premium unique from other offers. In theory, maxing out on the discount will boost the amount in your ISA, but there may be some risk of someone beating you to the purchase. I'll probably play it a little more conservative and ensure my sales are at a reasonable price for the market.
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Apr 18, 2017 19:21:29 GMT
Your loan parts should be highlighted when you search the loan on the secondary market Not when you view it through your IFISA A/C, although it should be easy to find using the amount, discount and effective rate. Logically selling into your IFISA at the biggest discount would boost the amount in your IFISA. You do risk someone "stealing" your loan part and I worry there will be some comeback if you are selling at a rate other than "market" rate. So I might stick to selling at no more than a 1% discount or even at par for loans with 3+ months to run, just in case.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Apr 18, 2017 19:21:35 GMT
Currently (in a standard account) parts you are selling are highlighted but you cannot buy them yourself (the button says Edit rather than View). No idea whether they are displayed the same way in a linked IFISA account. My guess, assuming it's treated as a distinct account, is that you may be able to buy them but won't see them highlighted.
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Post by snowdrop800 on Apr 18, 2017 19:24:44 GMT
Thanks, I'll have a try later (when Gorillas should be sleeping!).
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Apr 18, 2017 19:30:07 GMT
Thanks, I'll have a try later (when Gorillas should be sleeping!). Already nodding off! I think I'll open a bottle two bottles of Holden's Special Bitter.
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Apr 18, 2017 19:31:55 GMT
I really would advise against this but what is to stop you abusing the SM to boost your ISA? You sell a loan part to yourself into your ISA @ 3% discount, your ISA sells it back to you @ a 3% premium, rinse and repeat several times!
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mason
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Post by mason on Apr 18, 2017 19:39:28 GMT
I really would advise against this but what is to stop you abusing the SM to boost your ISA? You sell a loan part to yourself into your ISA @ 3% discount, your ISA sells it back to you @ a 3% premium, rinse and repeat several times! This is why I'm in rather a hurry to get my existing loans into my ISA... before someone comes along and ruins it for everyone.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Apr 18, 2017 19:43:14 GMT
All purchases / sales within ISAs are supposed to be conducted on an "open market" basis and so priced at "open market" price. I think any cross-dealing between someone's standard and IFISA accounts at anything other than current "open market" price risks the account's tax-sheltered status being removed by HMRC. Whether they'd ever find out is another question, but personally I wouldn't take the risk.
Ps. I'm actually surprised if FS are even permitting someone to sell and re-buy their own parts, given the risk that HMRC treat the whole set-up as non-compliant if someone is caught playing those sort of games.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Apr 18, 2017 20:00:27 GMT
I suspect HMRC would consider such actions to be trading and therefore not tax exempt.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Apr 18, 2017 20:11:49 GMT
All purchases within ISAs are supposed to be conducted on an "open market" basis and so priced at "open market" price. Does that 'open market' rule apply to sales within ISAs as well? If not, then Liz's abuser could sell to their ISA at the same discount as highest one currently available on the SM and then sell from their ISA at the maximum premium allowed (4%). I wonder what FS can do to stop such abuse.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Apr 18, 2017 20:22:44 GMT
Yes
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Apr 18, 2017 20:31:08 GMT
All purchases within ISAs are supposed to be conducted on an "open market" basis and so priced at "open market" price. Does that 'open market' rule apply to sales within ISAs as well? If not, then Liz 's abuser could sell to their ISA at the same discount as highest one currently available on the SM and then sell from their ISA at the maximum premium allowed (4%). I wonder what FS can do to stop such abuse. Firstly you are crazy to even try this because if you are caught you will be in big trouble, it was just an extreme example to highlight a possible problem. I'm surprised you are allowed to sell to your own ISA at anything other than par. What do you do if there are no loan parts for sale? Or only ridiculous premiums(2%+), that nobody is buying, then there is no market price. I think we should have been given some guidelines. Maybe we should be ultra safe and transfer our loans into our ISA's(via a sale) at par
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