adrian77
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,829 
Likes: 4,017
|
Post by adrian77 on Apr 1, 2020 7:30:24 GMT
Below is from our antipodean friend in 2017!
I also thought this one was going to be interesting - not least as the borrower has a very interesting history and multiple projects including some very late and problematic ones with FS.
This could be the first Covid-19 excuse - don't worry there will be plenty more!
Clearly extremely unlikely this chap will get refinance or sell this property for anything apart from a song,
Once the lockdown is over it would be interesting to see just how far this one has progressed.
I did say I expected house prices to fall - wrong logic but right conclusion...
I hope this is not another mega disaster but I am not holding my breath,
Ozboy - your OBE is in the post...
|
|
pfffill
Member of DD Central
Posts: 175
Likes: 206
|
Post by pfffill on Apr 1, 2020 7:38:47 GMT
Below is from our antipodean friend in 2017! I also thought this one was going to be interesting - not least as the borrower has a very interesting history and multiple projects including some very late and problematic ones with FS. This could be the first Covid-19 excuse - don't worry there will be plenty more! Clearly extremely unlikely this chap will get refinance or sell this property for anything apart from a song, Once the lockdown is over it would be interesting to see just how far this one has progressed. I did say I expected house prices to fall - wrong logic but right conclusion... I hope this is not another mega disaster but I am not holding my breath, Ozboy - your OBE is in the post... We may be in for a haircut, but I think there's a fair chance to get the bulk of investment back. All tranches are first charge, and the final LTV was 44.28%
|
|
pfffill
Member of DD Central
Posts: 175
Likes: 206
|
Post by pfffill on Jun 25, 2020 0:58:02 GMT
Update from C&G:
"The Administrators have continued discussions with the borrower who has advised that he has an agreement in principle with an alternative lender, this is subject to valuation. The borrower has a further meeting with the lender next week after which we are advised that a formal offer will be made. We will provide a further update in due course."
|
|
criston
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,204
Likes: 628
|
Post by criston on Jun 25, 2020 8:13:50 GMT
Never really got to the bottom of this one.
Should have studied it more closely before investing, but the assets appear ambiguous for the money lent.
|
|
pfffill
Member of DD Central
Posts: 175
Likes: 206
|
Post by pfffill on Jun 25, 2020 9:47:55 GMT
Never really got to the bottom of this one. Should have studied it more closely before investing, but the assets appear ambiguous for the money lent. As I said three months ago, I think he'll come up short, but by how much, with the LTV at 44%, remains to be seen. "Agreement in principle" sounds positive, anyway.
|
|
criston
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,204
Likes: 628
|
Post by criston on Jun 25, 2020 10:19:08 GMT
Never really got to the bottom of this one. Should have studied it more closely before investing, but the assets appear ambiguous for the money lent. As I said three months ago, I think he'll come up short, but by how much, with the LTV at 44%, remains to be seen. "Agreement in principle" sounds positive, anyway. Tranche 5 says 59.3%
|
|
pfffill
Member of DD Central
Posts: 175
Likes: 206
|
Post by pfffill on Jun 25, 2020 11:19:19 GMT
Tranche 9 was the last, at which point LRV was stated at 44.28%
|
|
adrian77
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,829
Likes: 4,017
|
Post by adrian77 on Jun 25, 2020 11:21:43 GMT
I have looked at the groups accounts and note they include hotels etc- well I wonder how well they are doing under lockdown!
I am no accountant and there may be enough money within this group for it to survive but I can't see any evidence of a charge against other company assets - well done FS.
Hopefully they have enough assets to get enough funds to pay FS off but I am not convinced - what we don't want is another offer to settle at 70% of loan or whatever as per our favourite chap with the £100K racehorse! If they are so financially well off then why did they take out a FS loan at say 20% - OK it can be quicker but I can't think of any other reason - oh hang on just thought of one... I make the total loans just over £2m with the average loan being about 18 months old If we take £2m at 20% over 1.5 years I make the interest well over £0.5m which will buy a lot of Cheddar Cheese. Of course with high-end property huge profits can be earned but this is not guaranteed and it would be interesting to know just how far advanced this one is.
Yet another interesting one...
Stay healthy all.
|
|
criston
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,204
Likes: 628
|
Post by criston on Jun 25, 2020 11:21:45 GMT
Tranche 9 was the last, at which point LRV was stated at 44.28% That's interesting, thanks.
|
|
iRobot
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,553
Likes: 2,277
|
Post by iRobot on Jun 25, 2020 13:25:08 GMT
Tranche 9 was the last, at which point LRV was stated at 44.28% My notes only run up to T8. I have a Loan to Gross Development Value (LTGDV) percentage of 39.3% and a Facility to GDV figure of 46.67%. At that point the accumulated tranches amounted to £1,178,300 of a £1.4m facility against a £3m GDV. Fag-packet calcs suggest that 9th tranche was for £150k?
|
|
iRobot
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,553
Likes: 2,277
|
Post by iRobot on Jun 25, 2020 13:40:43 GMT
I have looked at the groups accounts and note they include hotels etc- well I wonder how well they are doing under lockdown! I am no accountant and there may be enough money within this group for it to survive but I can't see any evidence of a charge against other company assets - well done FS.Hopefully they have enough assets to get enough funds to pay FS off but I am not convinced - what we don't want is another offer to settle at 70% of loan or whatever as per our favourite chap with the £100K racehorse! If they are so financially well off then why did they take out a FS loan at say 20% - OK it can be quicker but I can't think of any other reason - oh hang on just thought of one... I make the total loans just over £2m with the average loan being about 18 months old If we take £2m at 20% over 1.5 years I make the interest well over £0.5m which will buy a lot of Cheddar Cheese. Of course with high-end property huge profits can be earned but this is not guaranteed and it wouldbe interesting to know just how far advanced this one it.Yet another interesting one... Stay healthy all. : "company" or "group"? Across the 20 companies comprising the group, there are 41 outstanding charges, five of which are to FS. (And 2 to FC, as it happens.) Many are to major banks, some to lesser banks, but banks nonetheless. This: as per above, notes from T8 states the following: " The contract has been professionaly managed and the project is 62% completed without any expected overruns. <snip> All contract advances and therfore, the tranches under this facility, have been certified by a third party quantity surveyor." (sic) -and- " While the Borrower has advised they are not ready to pursue refinancing, there is one targerted company that they have an existing relationship with who wil likley be used. As an alternatve the Borrower may sell the project and given the expected loan-to-GDV of 47%, there is sufficient equity in ths project to allow for the full recovery of the loan." (sic)Info accompanying the T9 release may provide further details, but given those glowing references, it would be difficult to see how a 'cheeky offer' could be justified. Doesn't mean one won't be made, though. Of course, those 'facts and figures' may fall short of actually being factual under closer analysis.
|
|
pfffill
Member of DD Central
Posts: 175
Likes: 206
|
Post by pfffill on Jun 25, 2020 13:53:48 GMT
I have looked at the groups accounts and note they include hotels etc- well I wonder how well they are doing under lockdown! I am no accountant and there may be enough money within this group for it to survive but I can't see any evidence of a charge against other company assets - well done FS.Hopefully they have enough assets to get enough funds to pay FS off but I am not convinced - what we don't want is another offer to settle at 70% of loan or whatever as per our favourite chap with the £100K racehorse! If they are so financially well off then why did they take out a FS loan at say 20% - OK it can be quicker but I can't think of any other reason - oh hang on just thought of one... I make the total loans just over £2m with the average loan being about 18 months old If we take £2m at 20% over 1.5 years I make the interest well over £0.5m which will buy a lot of Cheddar Cheese. Of course with high-end property huge profits can be earned but this is not guaranteed and it wouldbe interesting to know just how far advanced this one it.Yet another interesting one... Stay healthy all. : "company" or "group"? Across the 20 companies comprising the group, there are 41 outstanding charges, five of which are to FS. (And 2 to FC, as it happens.) Many are to major banks, some to lesser banks, but banks nonetheless. This: as per above, notes from T8 states the following: " The contract has been professionaly managed and the project is 62% completed without any expected overruns. <snip> All contract advances and therfore, the tranches under this facility, have been certified by a third party quantity surveyor." (sic) -and- " While the Borrower has advised they are not ready to pursue refinancing, there is one targerted company that they have an existing relationship with who wil likley be used. As an alternatve the Borrower may sell the project and given the expected loan-to-GDV of 47%, there is sufficient equity in ths project to allow for the full recovery of the loan." (sic)Info accompanying the T9 release may provide further details, but given those glowing references, it would be difficult to see how a 'cheeky offer' could be justified. Doesn't mean one won't be made, though. Of course, those 'facts and figures' may fall short of actually being factual under closer analysis. Yes, T9 was indeed for £150k. Here are the notes for the Loan Summary: "This is the 9th and final tranche of a total facility of £1,400,000 secured by a first legal charge on a residential property near Cheddar Gorge, Somerset. The final advance is for £221,700. Now reduced to £150,000. The work to date has been certified via a third party quantity surveyor. The contract has been professionaly managed and the project is nearing completion. This release covers invoices totalling £117,266 that we have had sight of and the remaining work comprising of internal decoration, landscaping of the site and erection of the gates, totalling £221,700 including a small contingency of £24,029. NOTE: This tranche reduced to £150,000 "Within the contract completed to date, the Borrower has required the contractor to hold a retainage of £16,076. All contract advances and therefore, the tranches under this facility, have been certified by a third party quantity surveyor." As you say though, with FS there is always the capacity for a shocker when a loan becomes overdue.
|
|
adrian77
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,829
Likes: 4,017
|
Post by adrian77 on Jun 25, 2020 16:02:25 GMT
ok should have typed
but shattered due to heavy work load and I getting too old for physical building work
my point however is still valid - why didn't FS take further security as they have lent a vast amount of our money against this one as well as other development loans.
Not sure what "nearing completion" actually means - 3 weeks away or 3 months away?
Hopefully the QS statments etc are valid and this one will not be a disaster but this bloke has other very late loans and an interesting history
- I guess we will soon find out where we are with this one.
I am still with Sir Ozboy OBE on this one.
Stay healthy all.
|
|
iRobot
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,553
Likes: 2,277
|
Post by iRobot on Jun 25, 2020 20:59:28 GMT
My 'company or group' question was whether you expected FS to have taken additional charges directly against the Group entity's assets, or against some other Company within the group. It's why I took a few minutes to look at the other Companies within the Group to see what possible assets might exist unencumbered. Short answer, none that jump out. That level of indebtedness is also suggested within the accounts. Lack of available security to one side, possibly because the level of security provided is / was typical for loans of this nature on P2P platforms charging borrowers c.20%. Had more security been available / offered the LT(GD)V would have been significantly lower and the borrower might plausibly have found funding elsewhere at lower rates. As mentioned above, the borrower is no stranger to arranging finance going on the number of charges issued against other Companies / assets and the wide range of finance sources. I hope for lenders' sake and their money, that his experience brings home a good result for all parties. Not sure what you mean by "an interesting history"? (One thing I did find on my ' tour de charges' was that FS held a first charge against a night club in Bristol city centre which I've spent several very pleasant evenings in when I worked in the area. Still as popular as ever if reviews are to be believed, although recently impacted by CV-19, of course. If it's typical of other establishments, he - or his management - have an eye for hospitality.) For the avoidance of any doubt, I'm not in either, but if it came to a choice I think I'd prefer to be in this one rather than the one at the base of the quarry. Although that might just be an example of playing Russian Roulette with a fully loaded double barrel shotgun and trying to work out if you'd prefer your chances on the left barrel over the right. 
|
|
pfffill
Member of DD Central
Posts: 175
Likes: 206
|
Post by pfffill on Jul 28, 2020 13:25:16 GMT
Posted on the FS website just now:
"The borrower has provided additional documentation in relation to estimated costs to complete the property as well as planning information and surveyors reports. The borrower has an offer of refinance which would release an initial sum of c.£1m to FS, with FS then taking a 2nd charge for the balance of the debt. The documents are being reviewed but we do not believe that this will provided the best outcome for FS, and enforcement options are being considered. A further update will be provided shortly."
|
|
