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Post by chielamangus on Nov 7, 2014 9:18:47 GMT
Then there is the question of who votes. Naturally, existing holders of loan parts will vote but what about those thousands who have sold their loan parts but who are owed interest? They have just a legitimate interest in the outcome as the current loan part holders - in some cases more, where the interest owed is substantial.
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niceguy37
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Post by niceguy37 on Nov 7, 2014 10:25:52 GMT
Then there is the question of who votes. Naturally, existing holders of loan parts will vote but what about those thousands who have sold their loan parts but who are owed interest? They have just a legitimate interest in the outcome as the current loan part holders - in some cases more, where the interest owed is substantial. I think for practicality it's fine that only existing lenders vote. Otherwise it will get very complicated with votes for lenders owed only small amounts of interest. Whilst I agree with the principle that all lenders with outstanding capital and/or interest should be able to vote, but this should be balanced with the cost and effort with which AC is burdened. In practice the votes are hardly ever very close, and I don't recall less than an 80% majority in the past. The only concern is if a particular proposal being voted on prioritises return of capital over repayment of interest (where current lenders would benefit compared to those only owed interest), but I think we can rely on AC not to put forward any unfair proposals. A solution going forward might be an automated system, that generates a personalised email to each affected lender with a link on it that takes them to a response page on the AC website to record their vote. An automated system along these lines would reduce the burden on David Ricketts et al counting the votes and presumably trying to apportion a weighting to them, and it would also allow the inclusion of every lender owed even a few pence.
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niceguy37
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Post by niceguy37 on Nov 7, 2014 10:43:08 GMT
Wouldn't an opt-in provision fund be nice? Is that really necessary? If you're worried about a loan, just put all your units up for sale as soon as you start feeling uncomfortable. In this case, I expect the 18% interest rate would attract enough buyers to take your holding off your hands soon enough. Well mikes1531 - I put up my BL for sale as you've suggested, but am still holding some two weeks later, so I can't see it being sold now. (Well at least until Phase 3 is rolled out and we can offer discounts again - which might go quite a way in shifting the AM backlog on some loans.)
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mark
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Post by mark on Nov 7, 2014 14:23:30 GMT
While there is a slight risk that some uninformed borrowers might regard 'flexibility' as an indication that they need not comply, I am firmly of the opinion that a little (or a lot) of flexibility will produce a far better eventual outcome as long as the security is good and default interest is applied, I think that AC are getting it right and I see no reason so far to disagree with their behaviour is this regard. If the security starts or has evaporated then that would be an entirely different matter. Regarding the security of the LTV, you have to consider what is the current value of this property. The current falling property values in Anglesey, Who, if anyone, has recently valued this property and checked that the work has been carried out ( my money is on no one from AC ) 18% default interest for at least six months by the time this is resolved, legal cost of any action, AC's fees............. The safety net of the LTV starts to look questionable and will certainly continue to the longer this goes on.
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unmadem
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Post by unmadem on Nov 7, 2014 17:01:19 GMT
Update saying they have had no update from borrower/introducer. Not exactly a huge surprise given there track record.  |
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Nov 7, 2014 17:09:39 GMT
Update saying they have had no update from borrower/introducer. Not exactly a huge surprise given there track record. Having read the latest update I do hope that there will be no more chasing from AC if they do not receive a response on Monday. All this chasing from AC when in fairness it is up to the introducer/borrower to feed the required information is could be interpreted as a weakness on the part of AC. No feedback, then just put the options to the vote and let's get on with it - whatever that may be. Enough of this stringing everyone along.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Nov 7, 2014 20:13:37 GMT
Is that really necessary? If you're worried about a loan, just put all your units up for sale as soon as you start feeling uncomfortable. In this case, I expect the 18% interest rate would attract enough buyers to take your holding off your hands soon enough. Well mikes1531 - I put up my BL for sale as you've suggested, but am still holding some two weeks later, so I can't see it being sold now. (Well at least until Phase 3 is rolled out and we can offer discounts again - which might go quite a way in shifting the AM backlog on some loans.) Clearly, this will differ from loan to loan, but the subject of this thread, Ang*****, is showing no units for sale. This should mean that any lender who wanted to exit from this loan has been able to. Unless, of course, AC have stopped Aftermarket sales for this loan. If they have, I'm unaware of that.
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Post by pepperpot on Nov 7, 2014 21:47:52 GMT
Well mikes1531 - I put up my BL for sale as you've suggested, but am still holding some two weeks later, so I can't see it being sold now. (Well at least until Phase 3 is rolled out and we can offer discounts again - which might go quite a way in shifting the AM backlog on some loans.) Clearly, this will differ from loan to loan, but the subject of this thread, Ang*****, is showing no units for sale. This should mean that any lender who wanted to exit from this loan has been able to. Unless, of course, AC have stopped Aftermarket sales for this loan. If they have, I'm unaware of that. There's £10 available atm.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Nov 7, 2014 21:52:41 GMT
Unless, of course, AC have stopped Aftermarket sales for this loan. If they have, I'm unaware of that. I decided to find out for myself. I decreased my target to £10 below my holding, and waited. After an hour, nothing had happened. And when I Browse Loans, there are no Units Available. From that, I would conclude that Aftermarket sales of this loan have been stopped. Except... When I look at the loan's web page, the black 'Manual Investment' panel that tells me how much uninvested cash I have in my MLIA, what my current holdings are, and what my target is, also contains... So it looks like I've found a bug in the system. chris: Does the above give you enough info to track the problem? Or do you want me to supply some screenshots. Actually, screenshots should be unnecessary. Anybody ought to be able to observe the problem by looking at...
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Post by pepperpot on Nov 7, 2014 22:22:16 GMT
So it was your tenner up for grabs! I'll pass thanks.  I think the system now works a bit like FC, in that it doesn't show you your own parts for sale when your 'browsing' for a possible purchase. So I could see £10 as a possible purchaser, but not you. Why the system adds it to the black box figure though I don't know, that might be an unintended bug.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Nov 7, 2014 23:00:40 GMT
So it was your tenner up for grabs! I'll pass thanks. I think the system now works a bit like FC, in that it doesn't show you your own parts for sale when your 'browsing' for a possible purchase. So I could see £10 as a possible purchaser, but not you. Why the system adds it to the black box figure though I don't know, that might be an unintended bug. Interesting! Thanks for noticing that. I certainly hadn't been aware of that before, but I can see it now when I look at other loans where I have units up for sale. The amount shown for sale on the Browse Loans display differs from the amount shown on the loan's page by the amount of units I'm trying to sell. Now is that a bug, or a 'feature'? chris? I really don't like having numbers that are labelled as being the same thing being different in two separate places on the website. I suppose can live with it -- as long as I always remember that's the way things work -- but it does strike me as an odd way to operate. At the very least, there ought to be a 'tool tip' for the Units Available heading on the Browse Loans tables that says something like "This does not include any units you may have for sale", but I honestly doubt many people ever would come across that and have it pop up.
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kermie
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Post by kermie on Nov 7, 2014 23:05:07 GMT
I think the system now works a bit like FC, in that it doesn't show you your own parts for sale when your 'browsing' for a possible purchase. So I could see £10 as a possible purchaser, but not you. Why the system adds it to the black box figure though I don't know, that might be an unintended bug. Yep - that's been my experience too, and what I concluded as well. If you want to see what's really available for a particular loan, you can go to browse loans, search by loan#...and it will show the "real" availability...which can be useful to re-assure yourself that your loan parts are actually up for sale. It would be handy, in a similar vein, if we could actually tell if trading on a loan has been locked or not - at the moment I am able to reduce my target but only tell if it's up for sale by then hunting for the loan by id (as above) to see if my loan part is actually available.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Nov 7, 2014 23:25:08 GMT
I saw there was £25 on the AM & I just bought them, sorry I didn't know people were experimenting...
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Nov 7, 2014 23:45:01 GMT
I think the system now works a bit like FC, in that it doesn't show you your own parts for sale when your 'browsing' for a possible purchase. So I could see £10 as a possible purchaser, but not you. Why the system adds it to the black box figure though I don't know, that might be an unintended bug. Yep - that's been my experience too, and what I concluded as well. If you want to see what's really available for a particular loan, you can go to browse loans, search by loan#...and it will show the "real" availability...which can be useful to re-assure yourself that your loan parts are actually up for sale. It would be handy, in a similar vein, if we could actually tell if trading on a loan has been locked or not - at the moment I am able to reduce my target but only tell if it's up for sale by then hunting for the loan by id (as above) to see if my loan part is actually available. : I'm not sure what you mean by the "real" availability. If I go to Browse Loans and search for one where I have units for sale, the Units Available on the list excludes my units. It's only if I click on that line and bring up the loan's individual website page that I'm shown the total number of Units Available that includes my units. And I agree that we really need some sort of flag that indicates when a loan in unsaleable. When I adjust my target to below my holding of any particular loan, I make a mental note of the amount currently available. That doesn't change immediately after confirming the change, but if I refresh the page 10-20 seconds later, if the units are sellable then either the amount available changes or -- if the sale is very quick -- my holding drops and my cash balance goes up.
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kermie
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Post by kermie on Nov 8, 2014 0:39:19 GMT
Um-maybe I imagined it, mikes1531...I had thought that if you search for the loan by number in 'Browse Loans' the the results page showed all availability including any you have put up for sale yourself. Maybe it's just late and I'm doolally. |
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