ding
Member of DD Central
Posts: 238 
Likes: 132
|
Post by ding on May 12, 2017 10:25:41 GMT
Of all the P2P sites I'm on I use the market on Assetz the least as I find it confusing. So now trying to get my head around it.
I've only done a single investment into the manual loan book - C****o, £100 January 2017.
I was a little put off initially that even that there was plenty of units available, my investment was queued.
Over the months C****o units were always available, currently £139k. I would have preferred it to reach 0.
Few days ago I went to sell (queue) my loan part, just to see what would happen. I didn't discount.
It sold the following day (to my surprise) in chunks at 10am, 1pm and 10pm.
I can only think that I went to the front of the queue as the majority of the 139k is owned by Assetz?
|
|
|
|
Post by chris on May 12, 2017 10:30:34 GMT
Of all the P2P sites I'm on I use the market on Assetz the least as I find it confusing. So now trying to get my head around it. I've only done a single investment into the manual loan book - C****o, £100 January 2017. I was a little put off initially that even that there was plenty of units available, my investment was queued. Over the months C****o units were always available, currently £139k. I would have preferred it to reach 0. Few days ago I went to sell (queue) my loan part, just to see what would happen. I didn't discount. It sold the following day (to my surprise) in chunks at 10am, 1pm and 10pm. I can only think that I went to the front of the queue as the majority of the 139k is owned by Assetz? There is no queue, there is a pool. Several times a day the system matches all buyers against all sellers and distributes the transactions. Both sides are matched using a bottom up approach where all buyers / sellers are allocated an equal value of purchases / sales, with any excesses beyond those wanted redistributed amongst everyone else. This optimises the markets for fair distribution amongst as many lenders as possible. It also does away with the fastest finger first nature of other platforms and all the headaches that ensue, such as the advantage given by bots, autobid tools, API access, etc.
|
|
ding
Member of DD Central
Posts: 238
Likes: 132
|
Post by ding on May 13, 2017 10:29:45 GMT
Thanks Chris for the detailed response. It saved me asking further questions  |
|
|
|
Post by capricorn on May 15, 2017 0:03:01 GMT
Chris - does the primary market operate in the same way so that it makes no difference when you put your purchase order in (as long as it's before draw down)?
If so I suppose it also means there is no point bidding for more of a loan than you want in the hope of getting the amount you want if the loan is oversubscribed - correct?
|
|
SteveT
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,875
Likes: 7,924
|
Post by SteveT on May 15, 2017 6:22:18 GMT
Yes
|
|
|
|
Post by chris on May 15, 2017 6:32:28 GMT
Chris - does the primary market operate in the same way so that it makes no difference when you put your purchase order in (as long as it's before draw down)? If so I suppose it also means there is no point bidding for more of a loan than you want in the hope of getting the amount you want if the loan is oversubscribed - correct? That is correct. The system also does not scale how much people are allocated based on the amount they've asked for, so there's no benefit to trying to game the system by asking for more than you want.
|
|
|
|
Post by Butch Cassidy on May 15, 2017 8:54:28 GMT
Chris - does the primary market operate in the same way so that it makes no difference when you put your purchase order in (as long as it's before draw down)? If so I suppose it also means there is no point bidding for more of a loan than you want in the hope of getting the amount you want if the loan is oversubscribed - correct? That is correct. The system also does not scale how much people are allocated based on the amount they've asked for, so there's no benefit to trying to game the system by asking for more than you want. The main drawback with such a system is that it makes meaningful investment virtually impossible, it may work for those investors who want say <£100 in every loan issued but for those who prefer to be selective & only choose certain loans investing more than a token amount simply isn't feasible, which is why most MLIA investors feel both unwanted & ignored. I have had targets on some unspectacular 9% loans & struggled to get even £1000 invested after several months of waiting, so now any new investments are going on rival platforms, where meaningful investments (4 or 5 figures/loan) are still possible. As a future shareholder this is simply intended as an observation rather than criticism as I believe the current AC strategy will prove financially successful from an equity investor perspective.
|
|
ton27
Member of DD Central
Posts: 431
Likes: 267
|
Post by ton27 on May 15, 2017 12:02:49 GMT
As an MLIA investor it is now impossible to maintain the level of investment without partaking in loans at 7.5% and under - and why bother with those when the same can be obtained from the other "black box" accounts - which means I also am being obliged to withdraw funds and invest elsewhere.
As a small potential shareholder I hope it is financially successful but do not think any gain will compensate for the lack of lending opportunities.
|
|
Steerpike
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,977
Likes: 1,687
|
Post by Steerpike on May 15, 2017 12:20:06 GMT
As an MLIA investor it is now impossible to maintain the level of investment without partaking in loans at 7.5% and under - and why bother with those when the same can be obtained from the other "black box" accounts - which means I also am being obliged to withdraw funds and invest elsewhere. As a small potential shareholder I hope it is financially successful but do not think any gain will compensate for the lack of lending opportunities. There is of course nearly £3m of existing loans available at 8% or above but these may not be attractive to those lenders that already have their fill of these loans.
|
|
tonyr
Member of DD Central
Posts: 477
Likes: 258
|
Post by tonyr on May 15, 2017 20:35:33 GMT
As an MLIA investor it is now impossible to maintain the level of investment without partaking in loans at 7.5% and under - and why bother with those when the same can be obtained from the other "black box" accounts - which means I also am being obliged to withdraw funds and invest elsewhere. As a small potential shareholder I hope it is financially successful but do not think any gain will compensate for the lack of lending opportunities. The degree of difficulty really depends on how much money you have to invest. I have an ISA level account (6 figures) that has no problem in only investing at 10% and greater and a SIPP level account that runs at 9% and greater. The average return is considerably greater than the minimum. I would guess that we probably have very different diversification models. When AC say that something is bricks-and-mortar backed I believe them (plus or minus a bit) and this changes the maths of investing considerably, you just don't need as much diversification if you don't expect to lose it all (like with other P2P platforms). I'd be happy to go into the maths here or on another thread, but IMHO you don't need to limit your investment in one loan to 5%, indeed I've been happy to go as high as 25% as that's been my return over the two years I've been with AC. The worst that can happen is that I lose a fraction of my return - say it goes from 12% to 8% p.a. - that's still a very good return for the peace of mind I get compared with the FTSE or similar indices. Just to disclose my interests, I now have a reasonably large shareholding in AC, but it's still a lot less than I invest as a regular pundit.
|
|
|
|
Post by gidoppp01 on May 16, 2017 0:41:14 GMT
Of all the P2P sites I'm on I use the market on Assetz the least as I find it confusing. So now trying to get my head around it. I've only done a single investment into the manual loan book - C****o, £100 January 2017. I was a little put off initially that even that there was plenty of units available, my investment was queued. Over the months C****o units were always available, currently £139k. I would have preferred it to reach 0. Few days ago I went to sell (queue) my loan part, just to see what would happen. I didn't discount. It sold the following day (to my surprise) in chunks at 10am, 1pm and 10pm. I can only think that I went to the front of the queue as the majority of the 139k is owned by Assetz? Assetz Capital has a few products, 3.75% quick access , 4.75% 30 day access, 7% income and manual investment accounts. The money invested in the lower interest rate accounts are being traded as available investment in the loan pool of the manual investment accounts. I guess part of the £139k are money invested from the quick access and 30 day access accounts. At the moment, I don't like the 7% income accounts because there is no control of how money being invested in loans.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ace on Aug 16, 2018 13:58:43 GMT
Just in case people are looking to know, AC software doesn’t attempt to sell loan parts less than 0.01. To sell loan parts smaller than a penny you have to repeatedly buy, say, 0.02, then sell 0.10 (at a discount maybe to speed it up) then if you are left with zero stop. If you are left with <0.01 go back to buying 0.02, selling 0.10 again (and again) until it works. , can you comment on whether this strategy is really necessary, and, if so, whether you are intending to fix it please?
|
|
walktall7
Member of DD Central
Posts: 184
Likes: 35
|
Post by walktall7 on Aug 16, 2018 16:54:31 GMT
Just in case people are looking to know, AC software doesn’t attempt to sell loan parts less than 0.01. To sell loan parts smaller than a penny you have to repeatedly buy, say, 0.02, then sell 0.10 (at a discount maybe to speed it up) then if you are left with zero stop. If you are left with <0.01 go back to buying 0.02, selling 0.10 again (and again) until it works. Investing in P2P is supposed to be for sofisticated lenders and here we are trying to do daft things thing like this to try and sell out our total investments in IFSA.
|
|
|
|
Post by danielbird193 on Aug 20, 2018 16:10:52 GMT
I would guess that we probably have very different diversification models. When AC say that something is bricks-and-mortar backed I believe them (plus or minus a bit) and this changes the maths of investing considerably, you just don't need as much diversification if you don't expect to lose it all (like with other P2P platforms). I'd be happy to go into the maths here or on another thread, but IMHO you don't need to limit your investment in one loan to 5%, indeed I've been happy to go as high as 25% as that's been my return over the two years I've been with AC. The worst that can happen is that I lose a fraction of my return - say it goes from 12% to 8% p.a. - that's still a very good return for the peace of mind I get compared with the FTSE or similar indices. I guess the trade-off here is that you're exchanging credit risk (the risk the borrower will default and deplete your capital) for liquidity risk. Yes, the fact that the loan is backed by bricks-and-mortar means you will get something back in all but the very worst of circumstances. However you may not get that back immediately, there will be a delay while the administrators and receivers do their work...
|
|
|
|
Post by danielbird193 on Aug 20, 2018 16:11:49 GMT
I should add that I don't mean that to sound critical - sounds like quite a reasonable trade-off to make as long as you're investing money for which you have no immediate need.
|
|
