seeingred
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Post by seeingred on Oct 28, 2017 10:19:12 GMT
"........reassuring to see MT managing this loans exit strategy closely from here on in."
You could say that about some others including MT's Bollywood - in case it is at risk of turning into another Exeter (each have ten houses?)
MT used to be the platform of choice for a sound investment. Recently we have had Birkenhead, Prestbury and others, not to mention a loan in Bradford that should arguably never have been offered without far more detail of saleability of the proposed end product.
BC have a large number of defaulted or soon to be defaulted loans too.
None of this makes for comforting reading.
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oik
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Post by oik on Oct 28, 2017 10:49:04 GMT
There seems to be a lot more allegations and dirty washing lnked to various directors. The Liverpool Echo seems a good source and every soul in Liverpool seems to know about them. Not a loan I'd choose to hold. ...It would be reassuring to see MT managing this loans exit strategy closely from here on in. It would, and would be still more reassuring if Moneything stopped offering loans like this and others we've seen recently altogether. It seems unlikely that they are so inept as to have not been well aware of the group's history and their unfinished projects that litter Liverpool. And that of the various directors (at least one using several variations of his name) moving between the myriad companies on a magic roundabout. If they didn't know, then they didn't choose to look. Withdrawing offers only after sharper users of this site point out the problems isn't good enough. It's also the fault of us, the lenders, as well; too often ready to mop up iffy loans for what looks like a high rate or a bit of cashback on the expectation of being able to off-load them onto someone less sharp when the cracks appear. If MT is to survive and prosper then they'll need to give lenders more reason to have confidence in their processes and not expose them to the sharks. That means proper DD by them to inform lenders of the specific risks or making it far easier and less time-consuming for lenders to do their own assessment. It might be that lower rates have to be offered, so be it, but it should be possible for all retail lenders to make an informed choice rather than the current murky catch-as-catch-can.
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Post by keyboardworrier on Oct 28, 2017 10:57:24 GMT
I wonder if this could be another victory for the sheeple that got out of this loan at the first sign something was amiss - time will tell!
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Oct 28, 2017 11:00:15 GMT
This is a bridging loan, not a development loan, and the security appears pretty solid to me. Indeed, Please turn me over 's photos show that serious money has been spent in recent weeks by demolishing the derelict building, increasing the site value further. I suspect much of selling queue is larger holders simply wanting to ensure their funds aren't stuck behind everyone else if / when they wish to redeploy elsewhere. That's the downside of par-only Secondary Markets; all you can do is queue! And as each queue lengthens, prospective buyers assume there's something amiss so sales dry up. All MoneyThing needs is an option for those genuinely wanting to exit quickly to offer a discount (in 0.1% steps, perhaps with a 1% cap initially to protect the unwary from themselves) and let market forces do the rest. (Disclosure: I currently have my entire holding up for sale, in various bits dotted through the queue, because there's no logic in not doing so. However, I'd happily buy some more at a decent discount)
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locutus
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Post by locutus on Oct 28, 2017 11:21:24 GMT
This could be posted anywhere at the moment but this loan will do for now. There seems to be a constant swing between fear and greed which isn't helped by the retail nature of P2P investors. I can't see things changing any time soon.
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oik
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Post by oik on Oct 28, 2017 12:03:49 GMT
This is a bridging loan, not a development loan, and the security appears pretty solid to me. Indeed, Please turn me over 's photos show that serious money has been spent in recent weeks by demolishing the derelict building, increasing the site value further. I suspect much of selling queue is larger holders simply wanting to ensure their funds aren't stuck behind everyone else if / when they wish to redeploy elsewhere. That's the downside of par-only Secondary Markets; all you can do is queue! And as each queue lengthens, prospective buyers assume there's something amiss so sales dry up. All MoneyThing needs is an option for those genuinely wanting to exit quickly to offer a discount (in 0.1% steps, perhaps with a 1% cap initially to protect the unwary from themselves) and let market forces do the rest. (Disclosure: I currently have my entire holding up for sale, in various bits dotted through the queue, because there's no logic in not doing so. However, I'd happily buy some more at a decent discount) Yep, that's absolutely valid (though Moneything say they offered to fund the development and for the the borrowers to get funding elsewhere looks increasingly problematic). They say the loan "is expected to be repaid from the pre-sales of the units" which unsurprisingly now isn't going as predicted - so far just a fraction of those contracts expected by this stage. Even assuming the valuation is right, most wouldn't see hoping to be repaid from a recovery as ideal. The MT blurb tells us " The borrower on this project is.... As such, the borrower is a highly experienced developer having designed & built a number of similar projects in the Liverpool and Manchester area". Would have perhaps been more balanced to have mentioned their failures too. No-one should expect high rates without defaults, that's the deal, but that's not to say lenders shouldn't be properly informed of the facts. Good luck with the sale of your holding.
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awk
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Post by awk on Oct 28, 2017 16:25:00 GMT
This is a bridging loan, not a development loan, and the security appears pretty solid to me. Indeed, Please turn me over 's photos show that serious money has been spent in recent weeks by demolishing the derelict building, increasing the site value further. I suspect much of selling queue is larger holders simply wanting to ensure their funds aren't stuck behind everyone else if / when they wish to redeploy elsewhere. That's the downside of par-only Secondary Markets; all you can do is queue! And as each queue lengthens, prospective buyers assume there's something amiss so sales dry up. All MoneyThing needs is an option for those genuinely wanting to exit quickly to offer a discount (in 0.1% steps, perhaps with a 1% cap initially to protect the unwary from themselves) and let market forces do the rest. (Disclosure: I currently have my entire holding up for sale, in various bits dotted through the queue, because there's no logic in not doing so. However, I'd happily buy some more at a decent discount) But what would the queue length be if MT stopped paying interest while listed ? I think we are just seeing a case of “oh there’s a queue there, I may as well join it just in case because I’ve got nothing to lose” I must admit at being a bit miffed by LY and COLL stopping interest, but maybe it is the answer
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Oct 28, 2017 16:31:50 GMT
IMO, it is totally improper for any platform to withhold (or stop the accruing of) interest from the owner of a loan part whilst their capital remains at risk. If a platform wishes to levy a fee for using their SM then that’s their choice, but a loan contract is made between borrower and lender; platforms should have no right to step in between and divert interest into their own coffers whilst a part is offered for sale.
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Oct 29, 2017 10:54:05 GMT
Mod Hat On/ At elliotn's suggestion I have just moved around two pages of subsequent post's into the Poll "Should MT introduce discounting to help SM liquidity?" thread starting here with a post by mikeh which helpfully re-quoted SteveT's post above. Hopefully nothing of substance has been lost from either thread.
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jjc
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Post by jjc on Oct 29, 2017 13:34:46 GMT
Not easy to discuss things here so FWIW just some brief points. 1. The Gazette notice I take to be positive news for us lenders & our borrower (which is why he’s doing it) 2. Nothing that I have read on this thread* has had even the most minimal effect on altering my personal view (formed several months ago**) that this loan is priced accurately (if not slightly generously) wrt to the intrinsic risk of the proposal we were offered to lend on. I was always more concerned about the liquidity risk of this loan, once certain aspects emerged. I perceived this liquidity risk to be high based on a. the very high likelihood (certainty really) that something would emerge b. the very high likelihood (sigh, certainty really) that whatever did emerge would be misunderstood, & incorrectly “priced” by investors on a par SM (ie shed loads would be dumped) c. the certainty that a sheeple effect would then kick in, as other investors who have not done any research panic & follow the herd onto the SM, whilst still others (who might have done excellent/good/poor research) put some or all of their holdings up for sale, as they have nothing to lose from doing so Because I attach some (if probably less than most other investors) value to liquidity I hold a smaller than average stake in this loan. Should certain things play out as I am expecting them to in coming weeks I will probably up my stake considerably, on the basis that for a number of (good & daft) reasons both the credit & liquidity risks to this loan will have significantly improved. A long way of saying this is actually a considerably better loan (imv) than many people seem to perceive it to be. Usual disclaimers, not investment advice, dyor gawd bless us all & shpeshally the sheeple etc * Much of which is plain wrong (as should become clearer to intelligent posters – as I take them to be – once they have had time to digest things properly & join all the dots the right way) ** p2pindependentforum.com/post/224795/thread hints here as to the likely time/effort taken to form this view
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Post by elephantrosie on Oct 29, 2017 20:16:37 GMT
616k on SM. seriously worrying!
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Oct 29, 2017 21:43:11 GMT
616k on SM. seriously worrying! Not really
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GeorgeT
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Post by GeorgeT on Oct 30, 2017 10:26:56 GMT
There's nothing to worry about here so sit back and enjoy your 13% would be my advice.
This is a combination of a secondary market that continues to pay interest and availability on the secondary market. As soon as you get the latter there will be others who think oh I wonder if something is up, I may as well list my parts as well because I will still get my interest.
I have a lot of stuff for sale on MT because I am still getting interest. The secondary market is my least favourite part of MT because it seems the hardest platform on which to sell.
We have seen with the cash back flippers who were referenced in today's email and have been noted by MT, that there is an issue caused by paying interest on secondary market listings.
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keystone
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Post by keystone on Oct 30, 2017 11:47:43 GMT
Wow, significant buying going on. £30,000 chunk just bought up, large amounts of Nul as well.
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oik
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Post by oik on Oct 30, 2017 12:57:49 GMT
There's nothing to worry about here so sit back and enjoy your 13% would be my advice. Your advice would obviously carry more weight if you made clear your reasons and also said whether you held this loan and are trying to sell some or are buying more. If there are dots to be joined let's join them. If you don't want to sell then I don't fully understand the thread you started protesting at the queue to off-load the recent loan paying cashback and similarly with this one. If you aren't stuck in a queue trying to sell then this would seem to be bit of a non-event for you. Perhaps we should also all try to be a little less smug about deriding others as "sheeples". (Always used for those exiting, never those entering a loan.) The reality is that there are people with less time or better things to do than endlessly study loans, especially if they have relatively small sums invested. I've a six figure sum invested in p2p, but as that's a low single figure percentage of my total investments it's becoming clear that the returns often don't warrant the time I feel obliged to spend penetrating the smoke and mirrors. For me it's solely an investment, not a game, and platforms need to provide more information upfront to make DD less time-consuming and do more to be trusted. Declaration of interest. I don't hold this loan and therefore not in the queue trying to sell; neither with over half a million available on the SM am I trying to buy. (The possibilities for using this forum to pump and dump or trash and cash perhaps shows the additional risks for some, and opportunities for others, of a discounting SM. )
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