Henrik
P2P Blogger
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Post by Henrik on Jul 25, 2017 15:23:59 GMT
Please note that the website below has referral links Hi! I've been investing in Funding Circle for very nearly a year now and my annualised return runs at 17.3%. The strategy I use has nothing to do with flipping, something that I think is quite risky and I suspect also time-consuming. Instead, I focus on the notion that no two businesses are exactly the same. If two businesses are in the same risk band and have the same loan term, then they pay exactly the same rate. If they are different, then one must be better to lend to than another. The only thing you need to do is distinguish between them. My strategy has run so well that I decided to write a book on the details of it. I've also set up a blog that is dedicated to investing in Funding Circle, whilst also providing comment on other platforms and general P2P lending news. Although the blog and the book are aimed at people with and without knowledge of P2P lending, I would be really grateful if people here could have a look and provide me with some feedback. I've never written a blog before so it would be great to know what you think. Please take a look: www.fundingcircleblog.com
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Jul 25, 2017 15:45:24 GMT
Hi Henrik . Just one tip right off the bat for your blog, you might want to move the little 'go down here' double arrows elsewhere. Made me wince a little clicking on your cartoon crotch to access more information.
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Henrik
P2P Blogger
Posts: 12
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Post by Henrik on Jul 25, 2017 15:52:34 GMT
Haha I hadn't actually thought of that. Don't want people going down on my cartoon crotch!
I'll try to move it elsewhere
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bg
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Post by bg on Jul 25, 2017 16:54:53 GMT
I would say that the annualised return numbers are meaningless without the actual total returns for comparison.
For example if you have £100 invested and get a £50 referral you will have a decent annualised return but its fairly meaningless. Likewise you could put £100 in an E for a week and sell out to cash and again your %'s would look amazing but again fairly meaningless.
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Henrik
P2P Blogger
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Post by Henrik on Jul 25, 2017 17:13:22 GMT
Hi bg
I take your point and I have worried about how to come across as credibly as possible.
For transparency I've posted my entire Funding Circle summary on the about page. Obviously referrals are a legitimate way for anyone to make money on Funding Circle, but that being said, if you subtract the £100 referral from the earnings then you get a number that is 96% of the total. If you take 96% of my current annualised return you get 16.6% for the year.
In terms of time invested, it's unlikely that I would have earned that much by investing in an E loan for a week (unless I was investing millions!) I have been investing since the 2. September. I'm not entirely sure how to prove that. Open to suggestions if you have any?
The aim of the book and the blog is to help other people increase their returns by following my steps. I want to come across as credibly as transparently as possible as without that, you are right in that the returns are meaningless.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jul 25, 2017 18:09:37 GMT
The sceptic in me worries that this is sophisticated click-bait. Note, I haven't bought the book, but I did watch the video and a couple of the blog posts. A few random things to consider:- 1. You don't discuss risk adjusted returns. 2. You've been investing on FC for less than a year, that doesn't give you enough data to say convincingly that your strategy is in and of itself effective, or whether you've just been lucky and ended up towards the right hand side of the returns bell curve. There's a reasonable chance that you'll see reversion to the mean. 3. You haven't addressed any of the numerous failings / problems / issues with FC. Just take a read through many of the threads here for examples...... 4. Any investment book or strategy for sale that both relies on and illuminates market inefficiencies and informational asymmetries has, by definition, to be self-limiting. 5. So the main financial reason to write such a book is that you think you will earn more from selling it than you will from following your (currently) successful strategies. 6. I wonder do you need any FCA authorisation to write such a book? I don't know the answer but if it's not considered "investment advice" I'd be surprised. 7. As with 5. one additional advantage of having such a site is referrals and click-throughs...... But I'll say this, it is sophisticated .
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Post by spiker on Jul 25, 2017 18:22:15 GMT
To get a gross yield of 19.7 you must be investing in only D,E's? How are you getting soo many E's by a manual strategy?
p.s fair play to you, always nice to read success stories!
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bg
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Post by bg on Jul 25, 2017 18:33:34 GMT
To get a gross yield of 19.7 you must be investing in only D,E's? How are you getting soo many E's by a manual strategy? Not necessarily many E's. The annualised rate of a 60m D is around 19.5%. Also large E's tend to hang around for several minutes these days.
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macq
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Post by macq on Jul 25, 2017 18:37:32 GMT
Not had the time yet to look at the blog yet.But from the mention of the book it reminds me of the ad's in the sporting life where someone has had 24 winning bets out of 25 and wants to sell me the secret
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bg
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Post by bg on Jul 25, 2017 18:40:45 GMT
Hi bg I take your point and I have worried about how to come across as credibly as possible. For transparency I've posted my entire Funding Circle summary on the about page. Obviously referrals are a legitimate way for anyone to make money on Funding Circle, but that being said, if you subtract the £100 referral from the earnings then you get a number that is 96% of the total. If you take 96% of my current annualised return you get 16.6% for the year. In terms of time invested, it's unlikely that I would have earned that much by investing in an E loan for a week (unless I was investing millions!) I have been investing since the 2. September. I'm not entirely sure how to prove that. Open to suggestions if you have any? The aim of the book and the blog is to help other people increase their returns by following my steps. I want to come across as credibly as transparently as possible as without that, you are right in that the returns are meaningless. You've made £2.5k net. It's not enough to prove a strategy. If it was £100k it would be more impressive. Your net annualised return is around 15% and is on a very immature portfolio. Less than a year is not long enough. Another issue is scalability. Doing it on small amounts is relatively easy (if you can invest the time). Trying to ramp it up to your £1m target is a completely different matter. There just aren't enough loans (at the moment). Nice try though.
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Post by spiker on Jul 25, 2017 18:46:57 GMT
To get a gross yield of 19.7 you must be investing in only D,E's? How are you getting soo many E's by a manual strategy? Not necessarily many E's. The annualised rate of a 60m D is around 19.5%. Also large E's tend to hang around for several minutes these days. Judging by the profit he has made he must have had a significant amount of that £22,500 invested early into this 11 months. Judging by the 1.5 diversification he must be buying a fair chunk of C/D's that appear, therefore I'm suspecting some sort of bot automation strategy here to buy any C/D/E's, otherwise you'd be investing significant personal time in sitting waiting to buy these manually.
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Post by spiker on Jul 25, 2017 18:54:04 GMT
Trying to ramp it up to your £1m target is a completely different matter. There just aren't enough loans (at the moment). mmmmm, Not strictly true There were 1077 C,D,E's since September 2016 So you'd only have to invest on average £6000 in each to invest 6.6million therefore earning 1million from 15% interest Note: there wouldn't be the loan volume to support many participants in this million pound lunacy, but in theory its achievable.
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bg
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Post by bg on Jul 25, 2017 19:19:06 GMT
Trying to ramp it up to your £1m target is a completely different matter. There just aren't enough loans (at the moment). mmmmm, Not strictly true There were 1077 C,D,E's since September 2016 So you'd only have to invest on average £6000 in each to invest 6.6million therefore earning 1million from 15% interest Note: there wouldn't be the loan volume to support many participants in this million pound lunacy, but in theory its achievable But it's not as you can't invest more than 20% in any loan. You can't put £6k in a £10k loan. You're also ignoring capital repayments and defaults. You also can't invest in whole loans (which most loans are these days).
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Henrik
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Post by Henrik on Jul 25, 2017 19:24:17 GMT
Ok I'm going to try to answer this as best as I can registerme1. This is actually a topic that really interests me. If you invest in D & E loans at less than 8% I would say that is very risky given that the estimated bad debt ratio is 8%. If you invest in them at 17.9% and 21.9% then the margin you get (assuming FC's stats are correct) is 11.9% and 12.9% after fees. You could get unlucky with an E but you could get unlucky with an A+ loan as many have. There the margin is 5.9% so there is less of a saftey net, in theory. I think a lot depends on how accurate FC's stats are and the accuracy will decrease with D & E loans because a) there are less of them b) they haven't been around as long. That makes it difficult to know what risk we're adjusting for. I use other methods to mitigate the risk and I talk about these in the book. There are points on the curve for example where the debt becomes risky to hold. 2. I completely agree with this point. This is why I've been transparent about how long I've been investing for. There are 64,000 investors on FC so it's likely some just get lucky. 3. I'm a big fan of FC but I'm critical of some things. Please see my post on property loans www.fundingcircleblog.com/the-problem-with-property-loans/ as well as my post on the autobid function www.fundingcircleblog.com/robot-wars-invest-autobid/. I think FC is a good manual investing platform but when it comes to auto investing I'm not convinced. 4. I agree with this as well. However I think that FC is growing so quickly that even if everyone used my strategy the limiting effects would be minimal. Things don't stay the same either so sometimes you have to adapt. FC could withdraw the E loans or introduce an F. That would change everything. 5. That is correct. Let's say that if everyone uses my strategy then it will limit my return by a couple of percent (the loans I want become 2% more expensive to buy on the secondary market for example). That will cost me 2% of the amount that I invest (currently 25k so let's say £500). If the book helps lots of people with their investing and becomes wildly popular then I think I can make more than £500. For that to happen I think other people would have to have success with the strategy, in which case it's a win-win situation for everybody. 6. I have a large disclaimer on the first page of the book. Everything I write about is what I do. There are loads of books on Amazon about how people make millions on the stock market. My book is comparatively modest and no one has to buy it they don't want to. 7. Referrals would be nice. I don't actually expect that many tbh as I assume most people get these through friends or family. The more money I make the more I'll pour into experiments. I've put £2k in a separate FC account for example and invested everyhting into autobid. I'm going to report on this so people can find out more about the returns. I don't want to invest in autobid but I think it will be useful to learn and attract more people to the blog
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Post by spiker on Jul 25, 2017 19:24:36 GMT
But it's not as you can't invest more than 20% in any loan. You can't put £6k in a £10k loan. You're also ignoring capital repayments and defaults. You also can't invest in whole loans (which most loans are these days). note: the 1077 C,D,E's in the last year is already ignoring Whole Loans On re-reading, What I think he meant, was how to earn a total of 1 million (Not how to earn 1 million interest) And he's saying is you start with 0 and invest 1000 a month, then at 15% interest after 18 years you'd have 1 million total. In reality in the final year you'd have to invest 766,000 which is easily achievable given the current loan volumes
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