JamesFrance
Member of DD Central
Port Grimaud 1974
Posts: 1,323 
Likes: 897
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Post by JamesFrance on Sept 1, 2017 10:20:08 GMT
Surely the key word here is "unsolicited" If I/someone ws to post on a board "I am withdrawing my cash from FC because of the recent changes, can someone please suggest an alternative?" and a platform rep suggest their own platform then that is hardly an unsolicited message. I'm not sure the exact circumstances these messages were sent but in these circumstances I would say the message was very much solicited. There is a stark difference between this and a platform rep just going down the members list, blanket messaging hundreds of people. I don't agree with this. Someone posting like that is looking for suggestions from other investors, not inviting pitches from platforms.
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stub8535
Member of DD Central
personal opinions only. Not qualified to advise on investment products.
Posts: 1,447
Likes: 945
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Post by stub8535 on Sept 1, 2017 10:37:44 GMT
Surely the key word here is "unsolicited" If I/someone ws to post on a board "I am withdrawing my cash from FC because of the recent changes, can someone please suggest an alternative?" and a platform rep suggest their own platform then that is hardly an unsolicited message. I'm not sure the exact circumstances these messages were sent but in these circumstances I would say the message was very much solicited. There is a stark difference between this and a platform rep just going down the members list, blanket messaging hundreds of people. I don't agree with this. Someone posting like that is looking for suggestions from other investors, not inviting pitches from platforms. And certainly not by pm. Could it be that rebs know its reputation precedes it and they may trigger a balancing comment from several forum members?
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bg
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,368
Likes: 1,929
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Post by bg on Sept 1, 2017 13:28:38 GMT
I don't agree with this. Someone posting like that is looking for suggestions from other investors, not inviting pitches from platforms. And certainly not by pm. Could it be that rebs know its reputation precedes it and they may trigger a balancing comment from several forum members? Maybe some are but I would imagine most would welcome the approach. Besides, in those circumstances I would hardly call it an unsolicited approach when the person has specifically asked for potential new platforms to invest in.
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stub8535
Member of DD Central
personal opinions only. Not qualified to advise on investment products.
Posts: 1,447
Likes: 945
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Post by stub8535 on Sept 1, 2017 13:44:04 GMT
1. forum, a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
2. spam, irrelevant or unsolicited messages sent over the internet, typically to a large number of users, for the purposes of advertising, phishing, spreading malware, etc.
Spot the difference.
Unfortunately, because a tiny minority of the platform rep population ignored the previous rule 7 which clearly stated "The forum may not be used to solicit loans or investments, or to advertise goods or services", we had to extend the rule to make it explicit that unsolicited marketing spam via PM was inappropriate and therefore prohibited. Personally I was surprised that such clarification was needed, just as most reps seem to implicitly understand that trespassing on other platform boards touting for customers is poor form, I thought everybody would simply understand that spam marketing was poor etiquette at best and an unnecessary irritant at worst.
Suggesting that people might want to switch off PM functionality is as ridiculous as suggesting that people switch off their email account or turn their phone off. The cause of the problem is with the cold-callers and spam originators, not with people who have a phone or use email. There is, however, a more targeted option that can be used. See here for details. Surely the key word here is "unsolicited" If I/someone ws to post on a board "I am withdrawing my cash from FC because of the recent changes, can someone please suggest an alternative?" and a platform rep suggest their own platform then that is hardly an unsolicited message. I'm not sure the exact circumstances these messages were sent but in these circumstances I would say the message was very much solicited. There is a stark difference between this and a platform rep just going down the members list, blanket messaging hundreds of people. Maybe, but it was solicited publicly thus reply, by inference, probably expected the same way.
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btc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 193
Likes: 132
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Post by btc on Sept 2, 2017 13:34:52 GMT
Meh, I missed out on this
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Post by danraj on Sept 2, 2017 15:22:20 GMT
I was careful in sececting people who were asking about alternate platforms and was polite in my approach inviting users to find out more. Therefore it was not spam.
I feel that there are some users who are protecting their shareholding interests by complaining about my approaching them and others.
Given that I have had 3 people (out of about 8) express their appreciation for my massages I feel that my messages were solicited and were within the rules.
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registerme
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,618
Likes: 6,432
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Post by registerme on Sept 2, 2017 16:33:13 GMT
I was careful in sececting people who were asking about alternate platforms and was polite in my approach inviting users to find out more. Therefore it was not spam. I feel that there are some users who are protecting their shareholding interests by complaining about my approaching them and others. Given that I have had 3 people (out of about 8) express their appreciation for my massages I feel that my messages were solicited and were within the rules. I think we have a bit of a comprehension issue. Firstly, even before the update, rule 7 stated "The forum may not be used to solicit loans or investments, or to advertise goods or services". Are you really stating that your PM to the users concerned was not soliciting investments or advertising services? Because I can tell you, having read the PM in question, it sure looks like advertising to me. Secondly you seem to have failed to understand the parts of the definition of spam that are relevant here, namely being unsolicited messages (which they were), sent over the internet (which they were), typically to a large number of users (the same message was sent to a number of people), for the purposes of advertising (which they were). Now you go on to claim, with no substantiation, that people (forumites? forum staff?) are trying to protect their shareholding interests. For this to be true firstly said people would have to have a share holding in one or more rival platforms, secondly it would have to be material, thirdly Rebs would have to be a relevant competitor and fourthly they would have to act deliberately this way for this reason. Note - Rebs related PM spam came to the attention of forum staff because recipients complained about it. Also note that Rebs involvement in this was only made public by your responses in this thread. You could have just stopped, thought to yourself "ok, going forwards I'll adhere to the forum rules and I won't do it again" (or perhaps even apologised). That would be my advice to you now. This discussion isn't achieving anything other than amusing forumites, wasting mod time, and, I fear, embarrassing Rebs.
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andyc
Posts: 18
Likes: 32
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Post by andyc on Sept 2, 2017 16:39:50 GMT
He doesn't get it. It's obvious he will never get it. Just remove 'rebuldingsociety.com' completely from the site. Or at least relegate it to the 'Sub-boards'.
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btc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 193
Likes: 132
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Post by btc on Sept 2, 2017 19:37:09 GMT
He doesn't get it. It's obvious he will never get it. Just remove 'rebuldingsociety.com' completely from the site. Or at least relegate it to the 'Sub-boards'. That won't happen. Reps of a platform don't get punished.
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Post by martin44 on Sept 2, 2017 19:44:08 GMT
Looking at their recovery success, maybe Rebs can get round the forum rules by applying for charitable status.
edit.. oops 😉.............................. 😉
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sqh
Member of DD Central
Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
Posts: 1,428
Likes: 1,212
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Post by sqh on Sept 2, 2017 20:21:48 GMT
1. forum, a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
2. spam, irrelevant or unsolicited messages sent over the internet, typically to a large number of users, for the purposes of advertising, phishing, spreading malware, etc.
Spot the difference.
Unfortunately, because a tiny minority of the platform rep population ignored the previous rule 7 which clearly stated "The forum may not be used to solicit loans or investments, or to advertise goods or services", we had to extend the rule to make it explicit that unsolicited marketing spam via PM was inappropriate and therefore prohibited. Personally I was surprised that such clarification was needed, just as most reps seem to implicitly understand that trespassing on other platform boards touting for customers is poor form, I thought everybody would simply understand that spam marketing was poor etiquette at best and an unnecessary irritant at worst.
Suggesting that people might want to switch off PM functionality is as ridiculous as suggesting that people switch off their email account or turn their phone off. The cause of the problem is with the cold-callers and spam originators, not with people who have a phone or use email. There is, however, a more targeted option that can be used. See here for details. I think it's time admin and the mods relegate ReBs to the sub-board pages. From my experience ReBs and danraj don't interact properly with lenders. Personally, they have chosen to ignore my questions regarding H**** I******** S*******, a shocking story, which really tells you everything about ReBs. They provided misleading security and failed to pursue a fraudulent borrower who sold their business, defaulted, and has assets worth 18 times the outstanding debt, plus the proceeds from the sale of the business. If ReBs don't interact properly with lenders why give them a front seat when other platforms may do a better job.
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macq
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 1,199
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Post by macq on Sept 3, 2017 7:51:29 GMT
I was careful in sececting people who were asking about alternate platforms and was polite in my approach inviting users to find out more. Therefore it was not spam. I feel that there are some users who are protecting their shareholding interests by complaining about my approaching them and others. Given that I have had 3 people (out of about 8) express their appreciation for my massages I feel that my messages were solicited and were within the rules. Please PM me with your prices.  At least there would be a happy ending to this story.
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Post by danraj on Sept 20, 2017 9:47:41 GMT
If someone asks the question "Where else can I invest?" and I respond directly to them answering the question, then my private message is not unsolicited.
You purport to be independent yet won't hear both sides of an argument.
Your actions were unjust as I was not in contravention of the rules.
You also obstructed me from the follow up of the people who responded to me, which was detrimental to them.
I've written to the FCA asking for regulation of this forum because I've noticed an increasing number of minority shareholders, trolling competing platforms. I suspect your 'complaint' was from a user with a vested interest in supporting other platforms and hurting mine.
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stub8535
Member of DD Central
personal opinions only. Not qualified to advise on investment products.
Posts: 1,447
Likes: 945
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Post by stub8535 on Sept 20, 2017 10:44:47 GMT
If someone asks the question "Where else can I invest?" and I respond directly to them answering the question, then my private message is not unsolicited. You purport to be independent yet won't hear both sides of an argument. Your actions were unjust as I was not in contravention of the rules. You also obstructed me from the follow up of the people who responded to me, which was detrimental to them. I've written to the FCA asking for regulation of this forum because I've noticed an increasing number of minority shareholders, trolling competing platforms. I suspect your 'complaint' was from a user with a vested interest in supporting other platforms and hurting mine. Take your ball and go home! How childish to throw threats on a public forum! You know that any public approach to the fca will bring the response to write your formal grievances to the perpetrator of the great wrong you seem to think has been done to you. They then respond. If you dont agree you then go to ombudsman. But then you know that already. When you fix your own shortcomings, past and present, to prevent people being fooled by your marketing misdirections and avoidances then you will have a right to complain. Why the fca would be interested in a message board service is unclear. If you cannot understand the rules: if you cannot understand plain English: if you do not like being censured for acting against the forum rules then dont engage here. No person makes you do so. Just as, when someone discovers what sort of person you are, they can avoid anything you have a hand in.
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locutus
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,059
Likes: 1,622
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Post by locutus on Sept 20, 2017 10:45:54 GMT
Give a man enough rope... It really is amusing to see how detached from reality some people are. |
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