number5
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Post by number5 on Aug 29, 2017 9:52:37 GMT
It's been a while since I've had a decent amount of property loans sold a premium. Before they used to sell quite often!
Anybody else noticing the same thing?
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markr
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Post by markr on Aug 29, 2017 12:00:55 GMT
Since the announcement of the September 18th changes, and the removal of selling fees, there's been a lot of selling out, so there's plenty of stuff available at par.
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Post by yorkshireman on Aug 29, 2017 12:10:21 GMT
I sold a few property loan parts with a 1.9% premium this morning.  |
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number5
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Post by number5 on Aug 29, 2017 12:13:05 GMT
I have been trying to buy those loan parts at par, ones with long life span still left, 12 months +
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number5
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Post by number5 on Aug 29, 2017 12:13:50 GMT
I can't shift any my loans at premium...few days ago I sold one at 1.4 lol
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Sept 7, 2017 11:40:40 GMT
After some very handy volatility since "the announcement", property does indeed seem to be largely flatlining. I can't quite envisage par queues emerging for any significant amount of time due to the autobid monster feeding upon demand though. Except for Devon of course.
I had intended to retain some of the longer dated property and then autosell later, purely because, to date, FC just don't ever seem to RBR property loans before term. However, against my better judgement I decided to do some DD-lite on the projects and what I found is at best mixed, with an awful lot of really stinky looking situations. So I'm not sure to be honest. The only ones I'm definitely comfortable with are quite close to term anyway.
What's everyone else doing, do you think they're Feeling Consistent?
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seeingred
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Post by seeingred on Sept 7, 2017 11:58:47 GMT
Not sure I'm in any Devon loans - what is happening with them and which are you referring to?
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number5
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Post by number5 on Sept 7, 2017 13:47:07 GMT
I have been working on restructuring my holdings on property loans since announcement.
At the moment I plan to only be holding property loans with a long repayment left come 18th Sept.
In months (and a bit) time, I plan to auto sell the lot. I.e. one month before my first loan goes into its last month.
I don't intend to keep anything to term and deffo not expecting/hoping anything to default prior to the repayment date!
But I am still struggling to shift many loans at a decent premium since the announcement. I got rid of all my North Devon loans, before it is almost impossoble to shift them at par!
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c88dnf
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Post by c88dnf on Sept 7, 2017 15:02:23 GMT
But I am still struggling to shift many loans at a decent premium since the announcement. I got rid of all my North Devon loans, before it is almost impossoble to shift them at par! I guess the real issue is lack of reason to buy a property loan yielding a headline rate of under 10%? Take an A+ 9% property loan, remove 1% for FC fees, plus at least 0.6% bad debt estimate and you have a loan yielding 7.5%. That's assuming FC's bad debt estimation is correct and you are happy to be un-diversified (to coin a word). Not a great offer IMHO.
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number5
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Post by number5 on Sept 7, 2017 15:34:44 GMT
Possibly when you put it like that.....however in the past I have not had ang problem of selling parts with a large premium....buyer rates going as low as 6%.
Also the thing about property loans, is that the interest payments are already funded included in the loan amount. Lowers the risk of non repayment of interest and mid term default. Although you are right about the diversification issue.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Sept 7, 2017 16:23:44 GMT
Not sure I'm in any Devon loans - what is happening with them and which are you referring to? They're not ones I usually invest in either, although I know of no particular detrimental information - there's just always plenty of them sitting at par at the moment. Could be something to do with the 23 (!) tranches of them. Edit: My curiosity roused,I had to have a look. All of this money is for just one rather unusual property. I decided to compare the first tranche report with the twenty-third. The first (which had 1% cashback, aww bless) had a GDV of £4.25m with a total funding requirement of £3.05m, an LTGDV of 72% By the time we get to the 23rd, that's morphed to a GDV of £6.00m with a total funding requirement of £4.05m, an LTGDV of 68%. I confess I am not sufficiently roused with curiosity to pore through to understand how the GDV has increased by 40% to make for such a sparkly consistency in LTGDV. Are there any Devon enthusiasts out there who know whether this is actually justified?
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Post by grahamreeds on Sept 7, 2017 17:14:22 GMT
I sold a load at .2% with 2 repayment left but I did put two more up today at par so I could get a couple of Ds from the SM.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Sept 7, 2017 19:18:56 GMT
Personally I think this house is a vanity project rather than a solid commercial deal not that the couple aren't entitled to one
As I said it would the build costs have rocketed - as to whether the increase in the GDV is justified I am open-minded but the estimated sale price at £6-7M just blows me away - you could get a nice house in Belgravia for that! Am I right in thinking this couple are now borrowing over £1m more then expected and over £4m at 8% - well I make that over £25K a month in interest alone!
How many of us earn that sort of money - exactly!
Looks like they are running late (again as I said they would)-if they are still late then in 8 months they will owe 10% on £4m (minimum) - Gordon le Bennett!
I asked and asked FC if this couple could carry this project but had no reply....
Well I wonder why so many loan parts are for sale - this couple have only 8 months to finish the house, get it signed-off by building control, find a buyer and get it sold to completion. If they don't manage this -then what? Even more re-financing "under the bonnet"?
Granted I am in this business but you don't need to be a guru to realise this one was potentially heading for disaster. To be honest I save lovely old buildings rather then smash them up for profit so I am not exactly shedding tears for this couple..... True a mega wealthy rock star or similar may buy this property and problem solved but to me FC have just failed to understand what they are doing here and this is looking very problematic to me. I was wrong about T******y as the owners managed to refinance it but this one is top of my worry list!
Interesting to see how it pans out
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rogerthat
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Post by rogerthat on Sept 7, 2017 19:32:07 GMT
If this is the huge castle on the cliff face..almost..or the house in cider country... I sold the last of those a week or two back..and I suspect the only people able to afford this will be those who already have a house in Belgravia..nothing left to sell now..most of it went for par to get shot off cos with the 18th looming and rates generally flat lining ive sacrificed a few bob in lieu..better the bird in the hand rather than 2 cuckoos in the bush  |
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Stonk
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Post by Stonk on Sept 8, 2017 0:54:05 GMT
you could get a nice house in Belgravia for that! I'd much rather spend that amount of money on a big sea-view house in Devon than a pokey little hole in Belgravia. Not that I'm going to do either ...
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