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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Oct 25, 2017 14:08:18 GMT
From ABL perspective, I can see the no-preview, abrupt launch as a good way of getting the loan filled faster. There will always be some people who bid immediately on the basis that if it fills fast, then they should be able to sell later if they don't like it. But most won't. Better looking at it than looking for it, is a saying much used in my World. It basically means if you have too much of something, you have the problem of utilizing the surplus somehow, but at least have what you want. I'm sure there is an element of that with what happened here as you say. No a method that would work without the flexible secondary market some will say. DD Central will no doubt report at some point on the merits of the loan.
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applets
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Post by applets on Oct 25, 2017 14:10:18 GMT
The problem for anyone who works is that it not always possible to be sat in front of a computer screen or have access to mobile broadband at a particular time of day - and certainly not one that involves anytime during a one hour time frame. I appreciate that the short answer from many will be tough - buy whatever is left, if anything, when you do have access or use the SM. I can understand both viewpoints.
The alternative would be to have maximum bid limits for a period of time that may just allow more people to participate in a loan. For those who wish to buy larger amounts, then there may be the opportunity to do so when the time limit expires.
Personally, I could live with this alternative, but would be against the other ABL suggestions. Otherwise, just leave things as they are and ignore the complaints from those disgruntled that they cannot lend on a particular loan in the PM.
Advance publication of loan details to enable DD is a must have.
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Post by Butch Cassidy on Oct 25, 2017 14:34:22 GMT
I believe you require clarity on 2 distinct, yet connected issues; firstly allowing potential investors to appraise a loan & perform some DD without the pressure of ongoing bidding (& risk of missing out on popular &/or small offerings) – the current system is clearly unsatisfactory & I suspect would fall foul of any FCA scrutiny, regarding treating investor fairly etc. My view is this is the easiest to solve by uploading the loan & relevant documents 24 hours before bidding commences thus allowing time for DD searches & many questions to be resolved. In fact I suggested this very approach on 29th March 2016 as the 2nd poster on the “new features request” thread!
Secondly how to best allocate those loans, which is much more a matter of personal preference & largely down to platform choice. Your current no limits + SM premium charging model just encourages stockpiling & flipping for a profit & consequent “panic buying”; whereas bid limits can be a disincentive for larger investors. Ultimately to succeed you need to grow your lender base & continue to originate successful loans/borrowers who do as they promise & repay those lenders in a timely manner. This always involves balancing often competing requirements that will change over time but for what it’s worth, at this point of your growth, I would suggest loan bid limits of upto 1% for a period of say 24 hours, to allow most investors to get a piece if they want some (after the DD period expires) then what ever remains is open for anyone. This is a relatively cheap & simple solution to impose & can of course be achieved via a pledge type system, which in turn can be the basis of a future autobid system but that will obviously require a fair bit more IT investment, which could only be justified as anticipated platform growth feeds through.
Managing growth whilst keeping investors, borrowers & stakeholders all on board is never straightforward or easy but there are worse problems to have!
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garfield
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Post by garfield on Oct 25, 2017 14:58:33 GMT
How about disallowing premiums on the SM for a fixed time (1 month? 3 months?) after bidding has ended or the loan has drawn down? The facility to do this is already in place for loan 1000081 which is restricted due to its short duration (3 months). This way, even if lenders buy excess to their personal requirements, hopefully they would be forced to sell at par to release funds for subsequent loans (else to match low SM bids).
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ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Oct 25, 2017 15:10:00 GMT
ablrate if you are not a fan of bid limits, why have you said in the last that you will look to introduce them? Your current policy of not releasing docs in advance and also not having a bid limit causes a race which I suspect would not stand up to scrutiny by the Ombudsman. It also does nothing to help expand your user base - I suspect that large parts of this have been taken up by a fairly small number of big hitters. A generous bit limit for a maximum of 24 hours (could even be less) would allow many more to dip their toe in the water, but would also keep the bigger fish happy. I've been loyal to your platform for some time but I think this is a rather cavalier way to play things.
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Oct 25, 2017 15:32:28 GMT
I just don't like the "lucky dip" system. Stick your hand in the bag before the rest of the kids grab it all, see what you got, flog it you don't like it.(Hopefully) Nah, that's not good. That's not even investing. Not a fan of bid limits but that's pure selfishness from a big fat greedy pig.
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des
Posts: 119
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Post by des on Oct 25, 2017 15:37:17 GMT
How about disallowing premiums on the SM for a fixed time (1 month? 3 months?) after bidding has ended or the loan has drawn down? The facility to do this is already in place for loan 1000081 which is restricted due to its short duration (3 months). This way, even if lenders buy excess to their personal requirements, hopefully they would be forced to sell at par to release funds for subsequent loans (else to match low SM bids). I am not aware of people taking large amounts of a loan just to sell on the secondary market, maybe ablrate can confirm if this is an actual issue, or just paranoia by a few people. If it is an issue, your proposal would be good to prevent it, you would need the premium ban length to be proportional to the loan term, say 1/12th of term? The other alternative to prevent this would be to not pay interest on any amount that is made available on the SM, but no-one would want that.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Oct 25, 2017 16:40:20 GMT
The problem for anyone who works is that it not always possible to be sat in front of a computer screen or have access to mobile broadband at a particular time of day - and certainly not one that involves anytime during a one hour time frame.
Hmm, in this case it was not even an hour .. 37 minutes or something, during which time there was no chance of me being able to be online. I'm afraid if ABLRate can't find a solution then they'll have to go on the 'unacceptable platforms' list, which is a pity, because I like much else about them (and the list is getting pretty crowded already). Or else it's 'bid bot' time again.
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Post by alamosurvivor on Oct 25, 2017 17:10:38 GMT
I have again missed out on my small requirement of this loan. I, like most serious investors did not have time to do my D/D. I cannot for the life of me understand the thinking of Abl's management.
I thought that when Abl said "Do your own due diligence" they meant it. Clearly not. Dyodd in 34 minutes is not possible and Abl know it. By continuing along this path Abl are behaving as ignorantly
and greedily as the investors diving in and taking massive risks by not doing D/D.
The FCA should be made aware of what must be bordering on malpractise, before over exhuberant investors get burned. Some rules are required NOW.
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Post by ablrate on Oct 25, 2017 17:19:59 GMT
We will reply to some of these in the morning, but for clarity on the issues of concentration of lenders - this loan was taken by 290 lenders with only 16 over 10k and none over 40k. The average across all loans is around £1,200 per lender, this was £2,068... so not significantly out of the norm.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Oct 25, 2017 17:52:59 GMT
Connected parties - C*****T**** Ltd & B******N**** Ltd (Page 17 of proposal) Loans 40, 41, 57, 59, 60, 67, 68, 75 (I think, any I've missed or wrong?) - plus one on Huddle Maybe its time to discuss the merits of this 76.9% LTV loan? Makes the Fishing Assets look good I would suggest.
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keith
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Post by keith on Oct 25, 2017 18:10:10 GMT
I would favour a bid limit for a specified period of time. Personally, I like 24 hours as it allows people to have a life but if it hurts people that much then 3-6 hours would offer some flexibility.
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greenslime
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Post by greenslime on Oct 25, 2017 18:18:35 GMT
I try hard to be philosophical about missing loans where I can't be poised over the keyboard at zero hour, it's a fact of life, but increasingly pine for a 12 hour window for DD and perhaps a bid limit = total loan/number of potenital investors (with potential investors = the number of subscribers active in the past 6 months) of the same duration.
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Post by supernumerary on Oct 25, 2017 18:24:34 GMT
I concur with your observation, that 13:44 was the time it was all gone. It went live at 13:08 and it shows in my Financial Account the time being 13:08 when my investment was made. That makes it 36 minutes and NOT 34 minutes which Ablrate are reporting... Just a minor detail though!
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Oct 25, 2017 18:30:24 GMT
We will reply to some of these in the morning, but for clarity on the issues of concentration of lenders - this loan was taken by 290 lenders with only 16 over 10k and none over 40k. The average across all loans is around £1,200 per lender, this was £2,068... so not significantly out of the norm. So almost double then. Im looking forward to that defence from the next fat cat ... my bonus is almost double this year so not significantly out of the norm.
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