agent69
Member of DD Central
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Post by agent69 on Mar 15, 2019 17:54:54 GMT
The notion that the DUP somehow commands the future of the United Kingdom is terrifying. Almost as terrifying as the thought that JC was controlling our future.
I don't subscribe to the view that the DUP are king makers. In reality they are caught between a rock and a hard place. If they pull the rug from under the current administration they risk getting JC in charge, or the Consertavies with a majority big enough to not need DUP help.
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Post by captainconfident on Mar 15, 2019 18:18:52 GMT
Don't know about Chuka, but I'm sure in the event of GE Chris will lose his job. He was only hanging on because of Labour logo/brand. There's a lot of support for JC in my constituency and I think many voters will welcome a Labour candidate who is in line with the current party leader. I don't think Chris has any chance as an independent. I would agree and also add anna soubry to that list, being a conservative ex-MP, in a middle England Nottingham shire constituency which voted to leave.. her days are surely numbered as well. You should bare in mind that she won that constituency at the last election standing on a personal manifesto of remaining in the EU and dosavowing the Con Manifesto on this point. But people put as much or more weight on the party they are voting for not the qualities of the candidate, so the next election will be her last. I think people are being unfair to MPs by saying "They are (mainly) Remainer". They are elected as individuals and ideally would make their own minds up on what's best for their electors on each issue. The question for MPs is, whether the "will of the people" found its perfect and enduring expression in 2016, or whether it might have changed.
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Post by bracknellboy on Mar 15, 2019 18:31:46 GMT
...as I find the current Tory party way to the left of me.
Oddly, I'm not in the least bit surprised by that. Who'd have thought eh ?
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Post by bracknellboy on Mar 15, 2019 18:34:20 GMT
I would agree and also add anna soubry to that list, being a conservative ex-MP, in a middle England Nottingham shire constituency which voted to leave.. her days are surely numbered as well. You should bare in mind .... I'm not sure the name Anna Soubry and that phrase should ever be adjacent to each other....even if only out of some respect for the woman.
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Post by captainconfident on Mar 15, 2019 18:42:09 GMT
You should bare in mind .... I'm not sure the name Anna Soubry and that phrase should ever be adjacent to each other....even if only out of some respect for the woman. A Freudian slip. I really like her.
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Godanubis
Member of DD Central
Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Mar 15, 2019 20:12:06 GMT
I see the Russians have managed to go back in time in their experiments. We just have to tweak it a bit from tiny timescale to a couple of years and then we would have to go through it all again For those that would like to try it here is something to read link
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Steerpike
Member of DD Central
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Post by Steerpike on Mar 16, 2019 9:37:06 GMT
The only way to execute a worthwhile Brexit now is to leave on WTO terms and negotiate with the EU thereafter. Trump is right, May's so called deal is a tragic failure, those that present it as delivering Brexit are deceiving the British people and those that are considering supporting it should perhaps remember the very clear summary by Graeme Leach in November. I believe that the latest EU term for the WA is passive membership. You are at Witt's End, a sign on the wall says Welcome to the EU.
>GO NORTH.
You lost your knapsack.
You are at Witt's End.
>GO SOUTH
Your light went out.
You are at Witt's End.
>HELP
You lost your sword.
You are at Witt's End.
>EXIT
You are at Witt's End.
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cb25
Posts: 3,523
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Post by cb25 on Mar 19, 2019 9:26:28 GMT
The 2 questions with the biggest majority between agree/disagree were -I trust MPs to do the right thing by the country over Brexit: Agree 11%, Disagree 68% -It has felt as if the EU has been trying to punish the UK over the Brexit negotiations: Agree 61%, Disagree 22%
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Post by bracknellboy on Mar 19, 2019 10:05:23 GMT
Re. Bercow. in the live stream yesterday, one commentator said that the ruling was unspectacular, to be expected, and there were plenty of ways of bringing a modified motion back to the house. This may have been before he issued any further clarifications. I suspect though that there is a lot of noise here: not surprisingly perhaps being blow up both by the press and by the Govt. The latter appear now to be using it as an excuse when in the prior 24hours it was already looking like they were backtracking on bringing it back immediately, due to insufficient support.
As to the EU "punishing" the UK. I don't find the finding surprising, given that the public were sold a vision of a land of milk and honey, and lots of hand picked cherries. If that doesn't materialise, of course its the fault of the "EU" who want to "punish" us.
I loath the term "EU" in this context: its the collection of the heads of 27 govts not the dreaded "Eurocrats". But then, that point has been lost for years in the popular press.
Given the sticking point is the NI backstop, and that this first and foremost an Eire raised issue, perhaps the question could be framed as:
"Are the 26 other member countries of the EU right to standup for the declared interest of its fellow member Eire, or should it contravene those interests and wishes as a sop to its exiting member the UK ?"
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IFISAcava
Member of DD Central
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Post by IFISAcava on Mar 19, 2019 10:40:23 GMT
The only way to execute a worthwhile Brexit now is to leave on WTO terms and negotiate with the EU thereafter. Trump is right, May's so called deal is a tragic failure, those that present it as delivering Brexit are deceiving the British people and those that are considering supporting it should perhaps remember the very clear summary by Graeme Leach in November. I believe that the latest EU term for the WA is passive membership. You are at Witt's End, a sign on the wall says Welcome to the EU.
>GO NORTH.
You lost your knapsack.
You are at Witt's End.
>GO SOUTH
Your light went out.
You are at Witt's End.
>HELP
You lost your sword.
You are at Witt's End.
>EXIT
You are at Witt's End.However there is no mandate for a no deal exit from the referendum (the Leave campaign clearly stated we would leave only when a deal had been negotiated), and the opinion of Leave voters is split such that a no deal exit does not have support of the majority of people (not to mention the majority of MPs in our representative democracy that has ruled out leaving with no deal). See this Twitter thread from an MP in a 61% Leave voting constituency. Many different views from Leave voters.
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Steerpike
Member of DD Central
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Post by Steerpike on Mar 19, 2019 11:00:49 GMT
Apparently Nathalie Loiseau has started calling her cat Brexit because it makes a lot of noise about wanting to leave and then just stands there when the door is opened. Even funnier is Mark Rutte comparing Theresa May with the Monty Python black knight with all the arms and legs chopped off and still calling for a draw. I suppose that it is easy to laugh when it is not your country that is suffering from political representatives that are failing to carry out the will of their people. A once in a generation decision
The referendum on Thursday, 23rd June is your chance to decide if we should remain in or leave the European Union.
The Government believes it is in the best interests of the UK to remain in the EU.
This is the way to protect jobs, provide security, and strengthen the UK’s economy for every family in this country – a clear path into the future, in contrast to the uncertainty of leaving.
This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Mar 19, 2019 11:04:02 GMT
The only way to execute a worthwhile Brexit now is to leave on WTO terms and negotiate with the EU thereafter. Trump is right, May's so called deal is a tragic failure, those that present it as delivering Brexit are deceiving the British people and those that are considering supporting it should perhaps remember the very clear summary by Graeme Leach in November. I believe that the latest EU term for the WA is passive membership. However there is no mandate for a no deal exit from the referendum (the Leave campaign clearly stated we would leave only when a deal had been negotiated), and the opinion of Leave voters is split such that a no deal exit does not have support of the majority of people (not to mention the majority of MPs in our representative democracy that has ruled out leaving with no deal). See this Twitter thread from an MP in a 61% Leave voting constituency. Many different views from Leave voters. Luckily the question(s) in any second referendum won't be down to MPs (massively in favour of Remaining in the EU).
"Most referendums offer voters a binary choice between two options. In the case of Brexit, there are at least three possible outcomes: Theresa May’s deal, Brexit with no deal, or remaining in the EU after all.
A second referendum could in principle be held as a straight choice between two of these options: for instance Deal vs No Deal, or Deal vs Remain. In this case, whichever option won more votes would be implemented. This approach would naturally be opposed by those who support the third, excluded option.
If a referendum were held that includes all three options then there are different ways to determine the result. The simplest approach would be to allow each voter to vote for their favoured option, with the most popular choice declared the victor. This could lead, however, to an option being implemented without support of a majority of voters.
To avoid this, voters could rank their choices in order of preference. The least popular first choice would be eliminated, and its votes reallocated based on second preferences. This would ensure that the successful option gained over 50% of first and second preferences.
Finally, the referendum could include two separate questions. Question 1 could ask whether voters wish to Leave or Remain, as in 2016. Question 2 could ask voters to select between the two different models of Brexit, if there is still a pro-Leave majority."
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I think a GE would be preferable, with parties giving a clear statement of where they stand on Brexit (and everything else). Hopefully one party will get an overall majority and move things forward.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Mar 19, 2019 12:32:43 GMT
I'm not sure a general election would help unless one party clearly stood on a "leave this way" position, and the other clearly stood on a "remain / second referendum / peoples' vote etc" (take your pick). And I can't see either the Tories or Labour being able to adopt such categorical positions (let alone get enough of a majority for a clear mandate). Am I missing something? Wouldn't be the first time .
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Post by captainconfident on Mar 19, 2019 13:17:19 GMT
Who would lead the Conservative Party in a new election? Theresa May. What is the likelyhood of the Conservatives calling an election in these circumstances? 0%
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Mar 19, 2019 13:48:35 GMT
Who would lead the Conservative Party in a new election? Theresa May. What is the likelyhood of the Conservatives calling an election in these circumstances? 0% "Prime Minister Theresa May has said she will not lead the Conservative Party into the next general election." www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46547832 Dec 2018
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