copacetic
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Post by copacetic on Mar 20, 2019 21:19:57 GMT
Negotiating the divorce bill before agreeing a future relationship/free trade deal is similar to you walking into a shop and the shopkeeper saying "that will be £100 please" then asking "now what do you want?" without actually having a requirement to give you anything at all.
MPs calling for taking no deal off the table is similar to saying no matter how bad the deal is you can't leave the shop until you've made a purchase. Is that a situation you'd be happy with personally?
I'm pretty suspicious that remain MPs (which was around 75% of them) have engineered it that way to get us such a bad deal that we extend the Brexit date and eventually submit and return to the fold within a couple of years. The only thing that is likely to stop them is both major parties getting decimated in a general election in favour of a pro brexit party.
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Post by beepbeepimajeep on Mar 21, 2019 0:05:03 GMT
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Post by captainconfident on Mar 21, 2019 0:22:19 GMT
Negotiating the divorce bill before agreeing a future relationship/free trade deal is similar to you walking into a shop and the shopkeeper saying "that will be £100 please" then asking "now what do you want?" without actually having a requirement to give you anything at all.
MPs calling for taking no deal off the table is similar to saying no matter how bad the deal is you can't leave the shop until you've made a purchase. Is that a situation you'd be happy with personally?
I'm pretty suspicious that remain MPs (which was around 75% of them) have engineered it that way to get us such a bad deal that we extend the Brexit date and eventually submit and return to the fold within a couple of years. The only thing that is likely to stop them is both major parties getting decimated in a general election in favour of a pro brexit party.
Yeah, remain MPs 75% of them. LET ME REMIND YOU that first there was a referendum, then there was a General Election when the British people elected this parliament. Therefore this parliament represents a more recent expression of The Will of the people. Now. copacetic, I ask you, how did you vote in the AV referendum? Because the voting system in the UK is not suitable for this century but the two self serving parties will not release their grip and allow a system where an independent thinker can have a chance to win or an intelligent voter has a choice of candidate who has any chance if they have not confirmed to a party line. You see that on the one hand, I do think that MPs are doing a proper job in defeating a terrible second rate deal rammed at them by an imaginationless PM. But the position we are in after nearly three years is caused by the subservient time servers who slavishly follow the line of the two domnent parties because that is how they worked their way to being an MP and that is the world they know. Our view of these MPs is coloured by the cast of 25 or so of them who appear on a media shows. But I tell you that the ones you don't see are in the main mediocre minds who are not trusted to speak in public but are in parliament on the coat tails of their party which placed them in safe seats where a majority of voters did not vote for them. They did this because these are reliable party line stooges. The electoral system is gamed by the two main parties and treats us like children.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Mar 21, 2019 7:42:08 GMT
So, with her speech last night, has May lost any residual shred of credibility?
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Mar 21, 2019 8:32:04 GMT
So, with her speech last night, has May lost any residual shred of credibility? Yes
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Mar 21, 2019 8:46:27 GMT
So, with her speech last night, has May lost any residual shred of credibility? Yes Yes from me too. That and the immediate reaction on social media from politicians and the public felt like a seminal moment. Of course, depressingly, her leaving could still very easily make things worse. So, I guess I have to hope she stays, but as a subjugated leader yielding to the whims of parliament. I just hope parliament can sort *something* before the next greasy rat has ascended the Conservative pole.
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Post by captainconfident on Mar 21, 2019 11:24:26 GMT
Setting aside WTO Brexit fans for a moment, the EU must be fed up with May and the nonentity Barclay turning up and looking mournfully at them asking for changes to an agreement they already signed. As the co-operation of the EU is needed to take the next necessary steps, new personnel, new faces are needed. May needs to resign now, and the Tories need to find someone with some tiny bit of charm and decisiveness.
They must have someone amongst the 300 stuffed shirts most of whom scraped the support of 36% of their electorates. Amber Rudd? She managed not to move a single facial muscle during PMQs yesterday while sitting next to the PM.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Mar 21, 2019 11:26:35 GMT
Setting aside WTO Brexit fans for a moment, the EU must be fed up with May and the nonentity Barclay turning up and looking mournfully at them asking for changes to an agreement they already signed. As the co-operation of the EU is needed to take the next necessary steps, new personnel, new faces are needed. May needs to resign now, and the Tories need to find someone with some tiny bit of charm and decisiveness. They must have someone amongst the 300 stuffed shirts most of whom scraped the support of 36% of their electorates. Amber Rudd? She managed not to move a single facial muscle during PMQs yesterday while sitting next to the PM.
"the Tories need to find someone with some tiny bit of charm and decisiveness" - that could take a while
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aju
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Post by aju on Mar 21, 2019 11:28:31 GMT
TM being a staunch remainer before she became leader may have a "cunning plan" we are not aware of .... the cabinet must be as confused as we all are ...
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Post by mrclondon on Mar 21, 2019 12:15:58 GMT
IFISAcava a genuine question if I may. You've been consistent in both saying and implying that no deal brexit will never happen because MP's won't let it happen. Lets assume MV3 takes place Mon or Tue and is rejected by a large margin (or is blocked by the speaker), and the position agreed by the EU this weekend is no extension unless WA is approved, what do you believe is the most likely (short term) outcome ?
To me there appears to be three possibilities - leave as planned 11pm 29th, emergency mid-week EU summit and long extension offered (not requested by HMG but then approved by vote of MPs), MP's vote and approve revokation of art. 50. (I've omitted MV4, MV5 etc as being mere steps towards the end point)
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Mar 21, 2019 12:16:27 GMT
TM being a staunch remainer before she became leader may have a "cunning plan" we are not aware of .... the cabinet must be as confused as we all are ... she wasn't staunch. And she was very quiet during the referendum campaign.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Mar 21, 2019 12:23:48 GMT
IFISAcava a genuine question if I may. You've been consistent in both saying and implying that no deal brexit will never happen because MP's won't let it happen. Lets assume MV3 takes place Mon or Tue and is rejected by a large margin (or is blocked by the speaker), and the position agreed by the EU this weekend is no extension unless WA is approved, what do you believe is the most likely (short term) outcome ?
To me there appears to be three possibilities - leave as planned 11pm 29th, emergency mid-week EU summit and long extension offered (not requested by HMG but then approved by vote of MPs), MP's vote and approve revokation of art. 50. (I've omitted MV4, MV5 etc as being mere steps towards the end point)
Glad someone follows my rantings! I still think neither PM, Parliament or EU will let no deal happen. If it happens it will be a catastrophic misjudgement by all, which is still an outside possibility. if MV3 rejected, there will be emergency EU summit and long extension, probably with UK having to crawl on its knees a bit like Healy and the IMF in 1976 and possibly with a need to promise something (referendum or GE) or the appearance of promising something. Outside chance EU will play hardball and say no to extension (another French "Non") in which case it will be a straight choice between no deal and revocation of A50 - it would be the latter at the last minute and TM's resignation. Those are my predictions.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Mar 21, 2019 12:28:08 GMT
IFISAcava a genuine question if I may. You've been consistent in both saying and implying that no deal brexit will never happen because MP's won't let it happen. Lets assume MV3 takes place Mon or Tue and is rejected by a large margin (or is blocked by the speaker), and the position agreed by the EU this weekend is no extension unless WA is approved, what do you believe is the most likely (short term) outcome ?
To me there appears to be three possibilities - leave as planned 11pm 29th, emergency mid-week EU summit and long extension offered (not requested by HMG but then approved by vote of MPs), MP's vote and approve revokation of art. 50. (I've omitted MV4, MV5 etc as being mere steps towards the end point)
Glad someone follows my rantings! I still think neither PM, Parliament or EU will let no deal happen. If it happens it will be a catastrophic misjudgement by all, which is still an outside possibility. if MV3 rejected, there will be emergency EU summit and long extension, probably with UK having to crawl on its knees a bit like Healy and the IMF in 1976 and possibly with a need to promise something (referendum or GE) or the appearance of promising something. Outside chance EU will play hardball and say no to extension (another French "Non") in which case it will be a straight choice between no deal and revocation of A50 - it would be the latter at the last minute and TM's resignation. Those are my predictions. Although she may try and hang on a bit after revoking A50 - if there's one thing we know, she is the Monty Python Black Knight (but less funny).
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aju
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Post by aju on Mar 21, 2019 12:53:45 GMT
Won't they be going on their holidays soon anyway? according to the uk parliament site, that is.
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Post by dan1 on Mar 21, 2019 13:15:12 GMT
Glad someone follows my rantings! I still think neither PM, Parliament or EU will let no deal happen. If it happens it will be a catastrophic misjudgement by all, which is still an outside possibility. if MV3 rejected, there will be emergency EU summit and long extension, probably with UK having to crawl on its knees a bit like Healy and the IMF in 1976 and possibly with a need to promise something (referendum or GE) or the appearance of promising something. Outside chance EU will play hardball and say no to extension (another French "Non") in which case it will be a straight choice between no deal and revocation of A50 - it would be the latter at the last minute and TM's resignation. Those are my predictions. Although she may try and hang on a bit after revoking A50 - if there's one thing we know, she is the Monty Python Black Knight (but less funny). The similarities between the search for the Holy Grail and Brexit are becoming a little too much to countenance. I'm reminded of the alternative languages section on one of the Monty Python's DVDs (sorry kids, you're going to have to google that one), which was simply referred to as "foreigners" And what about taxing all foreigners who live abroad
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