mrk
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Post by mrk on Dec 14, 2019 13:32:51 GMT
Why won't the Conservatives allow Scotland to hold a 2nd independence referendum? There was a YouGov poll in June showing the majority of party members would actually let Scotland leave rather than not have Brexit...
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Dec 14, 2019 15:31:01 GMT
Hmm. I voted in that YouGov selection...doesnt much reflect my choices tho'. I'm happy for Scotland to leave any time, but you know they wont if they are all forced out again to vote in a referendum (phaps yes, if Nicola lowers the voting age to 16 ).
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Dec 14, 2019 16:48:07 GMT
I don't think the system could handle the UK leaving the EU at the same time as Scotland leaving the UK, but staying in the EU.
And if the border in Ireland is a problem a border between England and Scotland would be an even bigger headache.
Would the EU even allow Scotland to inherit the UK membership (now ending) to get Scotland into the EU as a separate country, or would they have to apply from scratch?
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Dec 14, 2019 16:55:24 GMT
I don't think the system could handle the UK leaving the EU at the same time as Scotland leaving the UK, but staying in the EU. And if the border in Ireland is a problem a border between England and Scotland would be an even bigger headache. Would the EU even allow Scotland to inherit the UK membership (now ending) to get Scotland into the EU as a separate country, or would they have to apply from scratch?I don't know but I can't imagine they'd face any difficulty in becoming a member if they wanted to.
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easylender
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Post by easylender on Dec 14, 2019 17:32:58 GMT
I would expect Spain to veto any EU application by a break away region.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Dec 14, 2019 17:39:29 GMT
I don't think the system could handle the UK leaving the EU at the same time as Scotland leaving the UK, but staying in the EU. And if the border in Ireland is a problem a border between England and Scotland would be an even bigger headache. Would the EU even allow Scotland to inherit the UK membership (now ending) to get Scotland into the EU as a separate country, or would they have to apply from scratch? At the time of the referendum the EU said that an independent Scotland would have to start from scratch, but we now have a different Commission so who knows.
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Post by mrclondon on Dec 14, 2019 17:43:49 GMT
Why won't the Conservatives allow Scotland to hold a 2nd independence referendum? Politically it would further strengthen the Tory grasp on parliament and we're often told that Scotland is subsidised by the rest of the UK via the Barnett formula. An independence referendum gives the SNP what it wants and, depending what you choose to believe, would leave England better off to fulfill its dreams of chlorinated chicken, antibiotics in beef and lower taxes on those most able to give. I think I speak for everyone in Scotland when I say we'd be happy for you to keep Michael Gove. Be patient. If SNP form majority administration post 2021 Scottish elections (assuming SNP manifesto is explicit on independence ambitions), consent may be given. It has been both Conservative and Labour policy to kick this issue into the long grass until after Brexit has been fully implemented and the brexit project fear propaganda finally laid to rest.
Some of the initiatives (and consequences) that will flow from Brexit are going to result in real change to aspects of the UK economy and may influence the way Scots view the risks / benefits of independence as the next few years unfold. Maybe the outcome will strengthen the case for independence but equally may demonstrate that increasing wealth creation is possible outside of the EU.
To use the topical phrase, I'm sure most English support the concept of "leveling up" across the whole of the UK, with the Scots generating more per capita wealth. The danger here is that a SNP led Scotland turn their noses up at the opportunity to buy into concepts such as Freeports which will be established over the next 12 months. I believe several English/Welsh/NI ports and their respective council areas are lobbying hard for access, but any Scottish bids are muted at best. Could either backfire spectacularly on the SNP, or further drive their support. What I do know is that there will minimal inward investment into Scotland until this independence issue is finally put to bed for a generation. (Same reason as the lack of investment UK wide for the last 3 years - uncertainty over the long term model for the economy). It is to settle this uncertainty that I believe there will be another referendum once the post brexit shape of things is clearer.
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Post by dan1 on Dec 14, 2019 17:45:29 GMT
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Dec 14, 2019 18:57:56 GMT
I don't think the system could handle the UK leaving the EU at the same time as Scotland leaving the UK, but staying in the EU. And if the border in Ireland is a problem a border between England and Scotland would be an even bigger headache. Would the EU even allow Scotland to inherit the UK membership (now ending) to get Scotland into the EU as a separate country, or would they have to apply from scratch? Just get Hadrian back
If we did decide to give the Jocks a second vote and they decided to leave (and I don't believe there is overwhelming support for this), I think the divorce settlement would be interesting. As we've seen from the Brexit negotiations, deciding to leave is one thing, agreeing how is an entirely more difficult proposition
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Dec 14, 2019 20:32:32 GMT
for me let them go but
We keep the pound they have to have a scots currency or euros.
Hard Border that they pay for, they want to leave let them pay
as soon as they vote leave, the Barnnet formula is revised so scots funding is the same as England ( no extras )
we provide no defence force
in other words we play hardball
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Dec 14, 2019 20:42:27 GMT
More than a little miffed at the left whingers etc protesting demanding "tories out"
what is it with some of these people
IMHO democracy = 1 person 1 vote and respect the result, not march with banners saying "not my prime minister"
I'd guess some are the same ones demanding a revote over Brexit, so they like democracy when they get their way.
personally I blame the culture in schools etc with the non competitive sports etc, meaning they don't know how to lose with good grace, because they are used to always winning
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Post by munchydave on Dec 14, 2019 20:54:35 GMT
More than a little miffed at the left whingers etc protesting demanding "tories out" what is it with some of these people IMHO democracy = 1 person 1 vote and respect the result, not march with banners saying "not my prime minister" I'd guess some are the same ones demanding a revote over Brexit, so they like democracy when they get their way. personally I blame the culture in schools etc with the non competitive sports etc, meaning they don't know how to lose with good grace, because they are used to always winning I agree 100%. Democracy can only work if we all respect the vote.
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Dec 14, 2019 20:57:44 GMT
More than a little miffed at the left whingers etc protesting demanding "tories out" what is it with some of these people IMHO democracy = 1 person 1 vote and respect the result, not march with banners saying "not my prime minister" I'd guess some are the same ones demanding a revote over Brexit, so they like democracy when they get their way. personally I blame the culture in schools etc with the non competitive sports etc, meaning they don't know how to lose with good grace, because they are used to always winning Yep, spot ON. 👍 😉
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Dec 14, 2019 21:24:32 GMT
It’s pretty pathetic. My Facebook page is full of people who seem to think every Tory voter is a racist, homophobic, NHS hating , food bank lover.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Dec 14, 2019 23:53:13 GMT
I would expect Spain to veto any EU application by a break away region. Break away region? They've got their own football team for goodness sake. Its a country !
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