cb25
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Post by cb25 on May 27, 2019 9:29:41 GMT
IFISAcava Why did you say earlier "Our politics is broken"?
Tories had an EU stance their voters didn't agree with and lost votes Labour had an ambiguous stance and lost votes Brexit, Lib Dems and Greens had clear stance and gained votes.
Seems to me that it's working just fine (regardless of which, if any, party position one agrees with)
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jonno
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Post by jonno on May 27, 2019 9:32:03 GMT
You can manipulate it how you wish... The Brexit Party candidates have the majority of EU MPs compared any other parties and so..... The BBC is so petulant don't you think? How is presenting the share of the vote for remain and leave parties "manipulating"? Erm,the last time I read the Tory and Labour manifestos, they both firmly supported Brexit, yet the BBC choose to ignore them in this blatant and pathetic presentation of results. That's why it's "manipulating"
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on May 27, 2019 9:47:26 GMT
How is presenting the share of the vote for remain and leave parties "manipulating"? Erm,the last time I read the Tory and Labour manifestos, they both firmly supported Brexit, yet the BBC choose to ignore them in this blatant and pathetic presentation of results. That's why it's "manipulating"
Last time I looked, Labour lost the 2017 election - no one ever said you have to stick with a losing manifesto. And the Tories lost their majority in 2017 so I'd be careful of suggesting that they had a clear mandate for their hard brexit interpretation of the leave vote. The clear story of the Euro elections is the Brexit party taking virtually all of UKIP's vote and part of the Tories, presumably the hard leave component, and the Lib Dems, Greens, SNP, PC and (just about) Change UK taking much of Labour's remain vote and some of the Tory's remain vote. It's polarisation, but with an overall shift to remain - i.e. exactly what the opinion polls have been telling us over the last 3 years. The BBC is only "pathetic" here if you want a particular (and unjustified) pro-no deal Brexit slant and/or a pro-Brexit Party propganda slant.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on May 27, 2019 9:56:00 GMT
IFISAcava Why did you say earlier "Our politics is broken"?
Tories had an EU stance their voters didn't agree with and lost votes Labour had an ambiguous stance and lost votes Brexit, Lib Dems and Greens had clear stance and gained votes.
Seems to me that it's working just fine (regardless of which, if any, party position one agrees with)
it's broken because: - nothing can be done except Brexit - Brexit can't be done either (as we stand) - the Brexit referendum has so polarised the country that we are moving to an all or nothing situation that will cause havoc ether way - the obvious - possibly only - solution of proposing a specific Brexit plan (be it a deal or no deal) and asking the people to sign off on it in a referendum won't be done for a mixture of reasons - ideological, political, tactical and sheer bloody-mindedness - 120.000 rather extreme and unrepresentative Tory party members are about to choose the way ahead for the whole country.
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jonno
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Post by jonno on May 27, 2019 10:02:54 GMT
Erm,the last time I read the Tory and Labour manifestos, they both firmly supported Brexit, yet the BBC choose to ignore them in this blatant and pathetic presentation of results. That's why it's "manipulating"
Last time I looked, Labour lost the 2017 election - no one ever said you have to stick with a losing manifesto. And the Tories lost their majority in 2017 so I'd be careful of suggesting that they had a clear mandate for their hard brexit interpretation of the leave vote. The clear story of the Euro elections is the Brexit party taking virtually all of UKIP's vote and part of the Tories, presumably the hard leave component, and the Lib Dems, Greens, SNP, PC and (just about) Change UK taking much of Labour's remain vote and some of the Tory's remain vote. It's polarisation, but with an overall shift to remain - i.e. exactly what the opinion polls have been telling us over the last 3 years. The BBC is only "pathetic" here if you want a particular (and unjustified) pro-no deal Brexit slant and/or a pro-Brexit Party propganda slant. It's precisely this type of clap-trap that's got this country into the mess it now finds itself in.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on May 27, 2019 10:09:48 GMT
Last time I looked, Labour lost the 2017 election - no one ever said you have to stick with a losing manifesto. And the Tories lost their majority in 2017 so I'd be careful of suggesting that they had a clear mandate for their hard brexit interpretation of the leave vote. The clear story of the Euro elections is the Brexit party taking virtually all of UKIP's vote and part of the Tories, presumably the hard leave component, and the Lib Dems, Greens, SNP, PC and (just about) Change UK taking much of Labour's remain vote and some of the Tory's remain vote. It's polarisation, but with an overall shift to remain - i.e. exactly what the opinion polls have been telling us over the last 3 years. The BBC is only "pathetic" here if you want a particular (and unjustified) pro-no deal Brexit slant and/or a pro-Brexit Party propganda slant. It's precisely this type of clap-trap that's got this country into the mess it now finds itself in. Thanks for the insight.
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jonno
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Post by jonno on May 27, 2019 10:13:28 GMT
It's precisely this type of clap-trap that's got this country into the mess it now finds itself in. Thanks for the insight. You're welcome.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on May 27, 2019 10:14:43 GMT
I find it peverse that any analysis of the results should ignore the two 'main' parties.
However, even if you accept the numbers as presented by the BBC, surely the most important figures are the number of MEP's that you have? By my basic maths don't the Brexit party with 28 seats outnumber all the remainers put together?
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Post by captainconfident on May 27, 2019 10:15:57 GMT
Captain Confident's crystal ball says:-
Boris becomes Tory leader. Boris considers being the one who leads the country to a WTO Brexit and the consequences for his place in history. He rereads his Churchill book. He puffs his chest out and holds the pose of the Great Statesman he learned about at Eton or wherever and goes for a referendum which WE ALL KNOW that remain will win.
If any of the other die hards win the PMship, all bets are off and I'd sell your sterling assets now while the pound still holds 75% of its pre 2016 referendum value.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on May 27, 2019 10:19:37 GMT
Captain Confident's crystal ball says:- Boris becomes Tory leader. Boris considers being the one who leads the country to a WTO Brexit and the consequences for his place in history. He rereads his Churchill book. He puffs his chest out and holds the pose of the Great Statesman he learned about at Eton or wherever and goes for a referendum which WE ALL KNOW that remain will win. If any of the other die hards win the PMship, all bets are off and I'd sell your sterling assets now while the pound still holds 75% of its pre 2016 referendum value. That's this morning's main task
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registerme
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Post by registerme on May 27, 2019 10:22:52 GMT
I find it peverse that any analysis of the results should ignore the two 'main' parties.
However, even if you accept the numbers as presented by the BBC, surely the most important figures are the number of MEP's that you have? By my basic maths don't the Brexit party with 28 seats outnumber all the remainers put together?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/crjeqkdevwvt/the-uks-european-elections-2019If you accept the argument that The Brexit Party + UKIP = leave and the Lib Dems + Greens + Change + Playd + SNP = remain then it looks to me like remain has won on vote share (34.9% of the vote share for The Brexit Party vs 40% for the remain gang). At the moment The Brexit Party have 28 MEPs, and the remain gang have 23, but I don't know how many are returned from Scotland and Northern Ireland which have yet to announce. Which is not to minimise the support the Brexit party received. Farrage really put the boot into the Conservatives. The country remains utterly divided on the Brexit issue.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on May 27, 2019 10:27:43 GMT
If any of the other die hards win the PMship, all bets are off and I'd sell your sterling assets now while the pound still holds 75% of its pre 2016 referendum value. And buy what? I can't find an asset class that doesn't feel horribly toppy right now .
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jonno
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Post by jonno on May 27, 2019 10:34:53 GMT
If any of the other die hards win the PMship, all bets are off and I'd sell your sterling assets now while the pound still holds 75% of its pre 2016 referendum value. And buy what? I can't find an asset class that doesn't feel horribly toppy right now . Well, if you believe the doom and gloom surrounding sterling then surely the dollar earners in the FTSE100 are worth looking at.
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Post by captainconfident on May 27, 2019 10:39:41 GMT
Gold is probably at fair value at the moment with more upside than down.
The country faces a binary choice now. The EU are not going to step in with any more help. So the eventual result will be either 1) Stay in the EU, consequence: a lot of complaining that will always rumble away in the background but financial stability will be regained and the economy will rebound or 2) No deal Brexit, 10 - 50 years of economic disaster and political chaos. One or the other.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on May 27, 2019 10:49:40 GMT
Watch the UK index tracker and buy low. (PS I reckon Boris will duck it again because he is too thick to deal with a no deal hole....maybe we will end up with another female..PM…. Anne Widdecombe
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