adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 9,045
Likes: 4,841
|
Post by adrianc on Jul 6, 2021 12:07:02 GMT
How very dare a government manage an artificial waterway that passes slap bang through the middle of their country...? Perhaps the UK should try to colonise Egypt again, in order to take control, like in 1882? Strange interpretation of the point I was making. Once more for emphasis... Egypt provided the Pilots to guide the vessel through. They now control the vessel's speed and navigation, not the ship's Master. When they royally screw up the job, they ransom the vessel's owner (and thereby his insurer) to pay for the damage they've caused. Perhaps that strikes you as right and proper. It doesn't me. Umm, you do know that pilots control all vessels in all non-open-water scenarios, right? Harbours, transits through canals, etc. (But pilots merely tell the crew what to do, they don't actually do it... So it's entirely possible that it could be a crew error, despite the pilot being in control). It strikes the International Maritime Organisation as "right and proper", and that's good enough for me, because they know an awful lot more about it than I do... and I suspect than you do. I also suspect this is nowhere near the end of it all, and that the legalities over who pays who how much ultimate recompense will depend on the outcome of the investigation that's still ongoing... lloydslist.maritimeintelligence.informa.com/LL1136294/Investigation-into-Ever-Given-casualty-begins
|
|
|
Post by bernythedolt on Jul 6, 2021 12:52:15 GMT
Strange interpretation of the point I was making. Once more for emphasis... Egypt provided the Pilots to guide the vessel through. They now control the vessel's speed and navigation, not the ship's Master. When they royally screw up the job, they ransom the vessel's owner (and thereby his insurer) to pay for the damage they've caused. Perhaps that strikes you as right and proper. It doesn't me. Umm, you do know that pilots control all vessels in all non-open-water scenarios, right? Harbours, transits through canals, etc. (But pilots merely tell the crew what to do, they don't actually do it... So it's entirely possible that it could be a crew error, despite the pilot being in control). It strikes the International Maritime Organisation as "right and proper", and that's good enough for me, because they know an awful lot more about it than I do... and I suspect than you do. I also suspect this is nowhere near the end of it all, and that the legalities over who pays who how much ultimate recompense will depend on the outcome of the investigation that's still ongoing... lloydslist.maritimeintelligence.informa.com/LL1136294/Investigation-into-Ever-Given-casualty-beginsWould that be the Suez crew error or the ship's crew? Apparently they sometimes/always put on their own crew as well as a pilot. As you say, this won't be the end of it, for sure. Interesting first-hand account of Suez pilot diligence, which obviously may or may not be typical... www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/apr/03/wind-or-worse-was-pilot-error-to-blame-for-the-suez-blockage
|
|
|
Post by bracknellboy on Jul 6, 2021 14:28:49 GMT
Interestingly - or perhaps not - I know of a small UK bike brand which has had a cargo of the frames for its latest models stuck on the (N)Ever (For)Given. They have had a lot of customers who's orders for builds have been badly delayed (and its not the bike brand that was mentioned in the BBC article, so seems like there were potentially a lot of bikes on that ship).
The co-owner has made the comment that it was a good job that they had insurance cover for the transit, otherwise they would have been caught up in the law of 'General Average'. Shipping not being my 'thing', having checked this out I now know something about shipping which I didn't when I got up this morning.
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,641
Likes: 4,213
Member is Online
|
Post by agent69 on Jul 6, 2021 14:33:20 GMT
Umm, you do know that pilots control all vessels in all non-open-water scenarios, right? Harbours, transits through canals, etc. (But pilots merely tell the crew what to do, they don't actually do it... So it's entirely possible that it could be a crew error, despite the pilot being in control). It strikes the International Maritime Organisation as "right and proper", and that's good enough for me, because they know an awful lot more about it than I do... and I suspect than you do. I also suspect this is nowhere near the end of it all, and that the legalities over who pays who how much ultimate recompense will depend on the outcome of the investigation that's still ongoing... lloydslist.maritimeintelligence.informa.com/LL1136294/Investigation-into-Ever-Given-casualty-beginsWould that be the Suez crew error or the ship's crew? Apparently they sometimes/always put on their own crew as well as a pilot. As you say, this won't be the end of it, for sure. Interesting first-hand account of Suez pilot diligence, which obviously may or may not be typical... www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/apr/03/wind-or-worse-was-pilot-error-to-blame-for-the-suez-blockage As somebody who worked for several years in Egypt, I can well imagine the example outlined in the Guardan article
Once, he recalled, he was leaving the container terminal to enter the canal when the pilot beached the ship on sand. The captain stepped in by overruling the pilot, got the ship off the bank, then took a much-deserved break. “When I came back, I said, ‘Where’s the bloody pilot?’” Then I saw his head popping up. He was on the deck, praying.”
|
|
|
Post by bernythedolt on Jul 8, 2021 0:01:49 GMT
At long last, she's finally left the Suez Canal and is out into the open waters of the Eastern Med, at the time of writing. www.vesselfinder.com/?imo=9811000For some reason, I seem more cheered by this than tonight's England result against Denmark! Probably because I've been checking on her (lack of) progress most evenings and feeling for the crew presumably holed up there all that time.
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,641
Likes: 4,213
Member is Online
|
Post by agent69 on Aug 3, 2021 16:27:24 GMT
finally arrived at Felixstowe
|
|
keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
Posts: 3,889
Likes: 2,321
|
Post by keitha on Aug 3, 2021 20:37:07 GMT
finally arrived at Felixstowe
Apparently quite a tourist attraction
|
|
|
Post by mfaxford on Apr 8, 2022 9:32:15 GMT
|
|
registerme
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,233
Likes: 6,038
|
Post by registerme on Apr 8, 2022 9:39:20 GMT
Maybe they need better trained staff? I hear there's a bunch from P&O that might be available...
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 9,045
Likes: 4,841
|
Post by adrianc on Apr 8, 2022 10:27:19 GMT
Maybe they need better trained staff? I hear there's a bunch from P&O that might be available... Both should have been under pilot control... At least this one's not in anybody's way. www.vesselfinder.com/?imo=9850551
|
|