toffeeboy
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Post by toffeeboy on Oct 18, 2021 15:22:34 GMT
With all due respect I do not know of any of the above religions which display a genuine threat to my loved ones or a secular way of life. I am unfortunately aware of certain ways of interpreting the Koran which, in the hands of deplorable individuals, can lead to viewpoints which do. The biggest current threat to the UK's way of life is most certainly coming from the far right. It's been playing out over five years so far, and is currently really starting to bite. It doesn't involve violence, though. Yet. Well, apart from the last murder of an MP, and death threats to others... The single largest violent threat to the UK's way of life through my half-century has most definitely not come from Islam. It's come from Northern Ireland. And if the far-right threat I mentioned above does escalate into widespread violence, it will be through reigniting that conflict, as is starting to be a serious risk. That says more about the "mainstream media" than anything else. Large swathes of it are hugely guilty of stoking the division that's brought us here. Sorry what far right group is demanding a hard border on Ireland as at the end of the day that is what is going to cause problems in Ireland. The group demanding that there is a hard border somewhere is the EU so the group causing problems are the EU and there belief that they have a right to do whatever they feel like and everyone should fall into line.
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toffeeboy
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Post by toffeeboy on Oct 18, 2021 15:26:09 GMT
No, there are no special times, either you believe in democracy or you don't. Rule of law or no rule of law. It isn't an optional, "I like it when the system works my way". That is the problem Bobo a lot of people nowadays believe in democracy as long as they are in the majority, as soon as a vote goes against them they call foul. Doesn't help when you have Donald Trump doing it for the biggest office in the world.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 18, 2021 15:32:40 GMT
The biggest current threat to the UK's way of life is most certainly coming from the far right. It's been playing out over five years so far, and is currently really starting to bite. It doesn't involve violence, though. Yet. Well, apart from the last murder of an MP, and death threats to others... The single largest violent threat to the UK's way of life through my half-century has most definitely not come from Islam. It's come from Northern Ireland. And if the far-right threat I mentioned above does escalate into widespread violence, it will be through reigniting that conflict, as is starting to be a serious risk. That says more about the "mainstream media" than anything else. Large swathes of it are hugely guilty of stoking the division that's brought us here. Sorry what far right group is demanding a hard border on Ireland as at the end of the day that is what is going to cause problems in Ireland. The group demanding that there is a hard border somewhere is the EU so the group causing problems are the EU and there belief that they have a right to do whatever they feel like and everyone should fall into line. Umm, a hard border is a simple necessity when there's not a customs union between two countries. There used to be. One country unilaterally decided it didn't want that any more. It's got to go somewhere, and anybody who pretends otherwise either doesn't understand the most basic concepts around international trade - or is lying. Remember, this isn't about free movement of people - the Common Travel Area hasn't changed. It's about free movement of goods and capital and services, the other three of the four freedoms that came into being in the 1957 Treaty of Rome. A fully open border, single market and customs union between NI and RoI is at the very heart of the Good Friday Agreement, written at a time when both countries were within the SM and CU. But that's for another thread.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 18, 2021 15:38:02 GMT
No, there are no special times, either you believe in democracy or you don't. Rule of law or no rule of law. It isn't an optional, "I like it when the system works my way". More a case of I prefer it when politicians don't take the piss monumentally, and especially when they don't start claiming they're going to allow themselves to "correct" court judgements they don't like...
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Oct 18, 2021 16:12:04 GMT
There are a disproportionate number of "terrorists" coming from certain sectors of society. Far-right, Jihadist and possibly soon NI related.
The Jihadist threat would barely register as such had we minded our own business and not invaded Iraq, Afganistan and taken sides (with practical weaponry and special forces) with other disputes in the future.
Second, the "radicalisation" I have never bought. There are probably millions of people in the region who are anti-British due directly to us getting involved. They didn't become "radicalised" due to watching Youtube videos - they suffered or knew of people that suffered and hated to have foreigners in their country. Many of their views are abohrent to us (women, executions etc) but that's how many of them are and we have no right to impose western liberalism on them. They are not "radicalised".
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toffeeboy
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Post by toffeeboy on Oct 18, 2021 16:35:12 GMT
Sorry what far right group is demanding a hard border on Ireland as at the end of the day that is what is going to cause problems in Ireland. The group demanding that there is a hard border somewhere is the EU so the group causing problems are the EU and there belief that they have a right to do whatever they feel like and everyone should fall into line. Umm, a hard border is a simple necessity when there's not a customs union between two countries. There used to be. One country unilaterally decided it didn't want that any more. It's got to go somewhere, and anybody who pretends otherwise either doesn't understand the most basic concepts around international trade - or is lying. Remember, this isn't about free movement of people - the Common Travel Area hasn't changed. It's about free movement of goods and capital and services, the other three of the four freedoms that came into being in the 1957 Treaty of Rome. A fully open border, single market and customs union between NI and RoI is at the very heart of the Good Friday Agreement, written at a time when both countries were within the SM and CU. But that's for another thread. Umm no it isn't, it is a requirement of the EU. Even the WTO came out back in 2018 and said that if the UK commenced trading on WTO rules then they were required to set up a hard border. Read this and then comment WTO hard border. Are the WTO lying then? What a surprise, we get comments like I don't agree with you so you are lying. The country still doesn't want one but equally Northern Ireland doesn't want one in he Irish sea cutting them off from the rest of the UK. Why not put one between Ireland and France seeing as it is an EU requirement.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 18, 2021 16:36:35 GMT
There are a disproportionate number of "terrorists" coming from certain sectors of society. Far-right, Jihadist and possibly soon NI related. The Jihadist threat would barely register as such had we minded our own business and not invaded Iraq, Afganistan and taken sides (with practical weaponry and special forces) with other disputes in the future. Second, the "radicalisation" I have never bought. There are probably millions of people in the region who are anti-British due directly to us getting involved. They didn't become "radicalised" due to watching Youtube videos - they suffered or knew of people that suffered and hated to have foreigners in their country. Many of their views are abohrent to us (women, executions etc) but that's how many of them are and we have no right to impose western liberalism on them. They are not "radicalised". I agree with you to a certain point. Radicalisation is a definite thing in extreme political viewpoints, not just religious ones. Susceptible people are definitely prone to being fed propaganda which will effectively brainwash them and take them down a path they wouldn't otherwise go down. The reasons you give are certainly amongst the tools the Islamic fundamentalist use to drag their useful idiots in to their radicalisation. At some point, politics and religion become difficult to separate... One becomes the other, and vice-versa.
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Post by captainconfident on Oct 18, 2021 16:51:15 GMT
There are a disproportionate number of "terrorists" coming from certain sectors of society. Far-right, Jihadist and possibly soon NI related. The Jihadist threat would barely register as such had we minded our own business and not invaded Iraq, Afganistan and taken sides (with practical weaponry and special forces) with other disputes in the future. Second, the "radicalisation" I have never bought. There are probably millions of people in the region who are anti-British due directly to us getting involved. They didn't become "radicalised" due to watching Youtube videos - they suffered or knew of people that suffered and hated to have foreigners in their country. Many of their views are abohrent to us (women, executions etc) but that's how many of them are and we have no right to impose western liberalism on them. They are not "radicalised". You must be 'radicalised' or severely mentally ill (or both) if you decide to kill someone you don't know and who did you no harm. I can excuse people being angry about our ill-judged medalling in other countries and perhaps graffiting on a wall, but I can't understand how someone can be triggered to murder someone. Was the murderer of Jo Cox 'radicalised'? I'm talking to myself - interesting post michaelc.
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Oct 19, 2021 17:21:11 GMT
Referrals for concerns related to Islamist radicalisation increased by 6% in the year ending March 2020, compared with the previous year (1,404 to 1,487). This is the first year-on-year increase in referrals for concerns related to Islamist radicalisation since the year ending March 2016.
In contrast, the number of Prevent referrals for concerns related to right-wing radicalisation decreased by 0.1% in the year ending March 2020 when compared with the previous year (1,388 to 1,387) and has remained relatively stable within the last three years.
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Post by martin44 on Oct 19, 2021 19:54:07 GMT
Referrals for concerns related to Islamist radicalisation increased by 6% in the year ending March 2020, compared with the previous year (1,404 to 1,487). This is the first year-on-year increase in referrals for concerns related to Islamist radicalisation since the year ending March 2016.
In contrast, the number of Prevent referrals for concerns related to right-wing radicalisation decreased by 0.1% in the year ending March 2020 when compared with the previous year (1,388 to 1,387) and has remained relatively stable within the last three years.
Agreed.. as i remember "Prevent" was set up as a referral program for certain types who were maybe being radicalised into extreme Islamic ideology..... Prevent.. at the moment have only 20% of referrals classified as "islamic" the rest are referrals made by snowflake types with regards to "woke" ideology... no wonder the radical islamist madmen are running around un-hindered.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Oct 19, 2021 20:05:12 GMT
Umm, a hard border is a simple necessity when there's not a customs union between two countries. There used to be. One country unilaterally decided it didn't want that any more. It's got to go somewhere, and anybody who pretends otherwise either doesn't understand the most basic concepts around international trade - or is lying. Remember, this isn't about free movement of people - the Common Travel Area hasn't changed. It's about free movement of goods and capital and services, the other three of the four freedoms that came into being in the 1957 Treaty of Rome. A fully open border, single market and customs union between NI and RoI is at the very heart of the Good Friday Agreement, written at a time when both countries were within the SM and CU. But that's for another thread. Umm no it isn't, it is a requirement of the EU. Even the WTO came out back in 2018 and said that if the UK commenced trading on WTO rules then they were required to set up a hard border. Read this and then comment WTO hard border. Are the WTO lying then? What a surprise, we get comments like I don't agree with you so you are lying. The country still doesn't want one but equally Northern Ireland doesn't want one in he Irish sea cutting them off from the rest of the UK. Why not put one between Ireland and France seeing as it is an EU requirement. Put it where it is in the middle of Ireland and let the EU police it (and good luck with that), the UK can just allow free trade between the north and south. I know that isn't possible because...
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daveb
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Post by daveb on Oct 19, 2021 20:43:42 GMT
There does seem a bit of a tendency to say if a non-Islamic/white person kills a stranger they are mentally ill, if a Moslem does it they are a terrorist.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Oct 19, 2021 22:23:34 GMT
There does seem a bit of a tendency to say if a non-Islamic/white person kills a stranger they are mentally ill, if a Moslem does it they are a terrorist.
This always makes me laugh, and provokes numerous "lively debates" with a psychiatrist friend of mine:- "In the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, a delusion is defined as: A false belief based on incorrect inference about external reality that is firmly sustained despite what almost everybody else believes and despite what constitutes incontrovertible and obvious proof or evidence to the contrary. The belief is not one ordinarily accepted by other members of the person’s culture or subculture (e.g. it is not an article of religious faith)".
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2021 8:30:09 GMT
To be fair I'm not so sure Ireland actually wants the pleasure of a reasonably pissed-off large-group of Protestants suddenly being part of their country. (yes I understand the Irish constitution, but really?)
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Oct 20, 2021 8:37:41 GMT
Matters concerning murderous attacks never make me laugh, but the "Sera toujours La France" Charlie front page did raise a wry smile.
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