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Post by martin44 on Oct 16, 2021 20:15:02 GMT
Jeez.. how do we stop this toxic extremist Islamism... aimed at a thougherly decent man.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Oct 16, 2021 22:37:34 GMT
Jeez.. how do we stop this toxic extremist Islamism... aimed at a thougherly decent man. Is there any evidence as yet he's a follower of Islam
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jaswells
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Post by jaswells on Oct 16, 2021 23:16:08 GMT
"Is there any evidence as yet he's a follower of Islam"
Joke, right?
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Oct 16, 2021 23:20:25 GMT
Yes. There's certainly some, though how important / relevant it is has yet to be determined / made public. I'd currently plump for >75% chance of the arrested man turning out to be Muslim and radicalised in some way  . I didn't agree with Amess' politics, but by all accounts that I have read he was an excellent MP for his constituency. Horrible news. Sad days . |
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jaswells
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Post by jaswells on Oct 16, 2021 23:29:46 GMT
Think you're being generous. It is almost certain that he has been assassinated a member of parliament for his religious beliefs, views or lifestyle choice. Very similar to the hundreds of other attacks that take place seemingly on a weekly / monthly basis across Europe on the general public. Until this simple fact is addressed head on there will be no resolution apart from solutions which detract from the freedoms our society have enjoyed for decades. Tough/ honest decisions need to be made, but better made by moderate political parties than far right ones.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Oct 17, 2021 22:00:32 GMT
"Is there any evidence as yet he's a follower of Islam" Joke, right? Nope, prepared to give the benefit of the doubt, until evidence emerges that proves otherwise
Not all terrorists are Muslim, not all muslims are terrorists.
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jaswells
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Post by jaswells on Oct 17, 2021 22:28:16 GMT
"not all muslims are terrorists."- Of course not, the vast vast majority are law abiding, decent people
"Not all terrorists are Muslim"- No, but a sizeable number are because aspects of the religion they preach, when taken to the extreme would happily destroy western democracy. The solutions can only come from within the muslim community (who seemingly lack any kind of leadership apparently willing to do so), not from the "lone wolf internet user" and "mental health" narrative which don't actually get to the heart of the problem. All I can see coming out of this are increase spending on police protection for MP's (maybe taken away from public protection), increased spending on mental health causes (worthy, but not a solution here and taking funds away from other important health care funding) and tighter controls on internet use.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 18, 2021 6:52:07 GMT
"Not all terrorists are Muslim"- No, but a sizeable number are because aspects of the religion they preach Bollocks, frankly. There are Christians murdering and bombing in the name of their religion. There are Hindus murdering and bombing in the name of their religion. There are Buddhists murdering and bombing in the name of their religion. There are Jews murdering and bombing in the name of their religion. They are murdering people who ostensibly share their religion, but who differ on detail, as well as those who do not share their religion. Are there "aspects of the religion they preach", too? Or is religion being used as a simple excuse for the actions of individuals? The last MP murdered in this country was murdered because she wasn't an insular xenophobic islamophobe. The far right is currently the greatest terror threat in the UK, and also in the US, according to the security services. The attempt to kill Rosie Cooper was far-right. The attempt to kill Stephen Timms, was Islamist. The attempt to kill Nigel Jones (which killed his assistant, a councillor) was not politically motivated. All the previous four murders of MPs - Neave, Gow, Bradford, Berry - were IRA. <edit> ...and it's just been announced that a 76-year old has been arrested for sending a death threat this Saturday (the day after Amess' murder) to Chris Bryant - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-58951337 - who's previously had threats from anti-vaxxers and hard-core Brexiteers. Then there's all the death threats sent to people like Diane Abbott and Jess Phillips. A former advisor to Yvette Cooper has said over the weekend she was receiving 50 death threats a week.
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Oct 18, 2021 9:28:29 GMT
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jaswells
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Post by jaswells on Oct 18, 2021 10:01:39 GMT
"Not all terrorists are Muslim"- No, but a sizeable number are because aspects of the religion they preach Bollocks, frankly. There are Christians murdering and bombing in the name of their religion. There are Hindus murdering and bombing in the name of their religion. There are Buddhists murdering and bombing in the name of their religion. There are Jews murdering and bombing in the name of their religion. They are murdering people who ostensibly share their religion, but who differ on detail, as well as those who do not share their religion. Are there "aspects of the religion they preach", too? Or is religion being used as a simple excuse for the actions of individuals? With all due respect I do not know of any of the above religions which display a genuine threat to my loved ones or a secular way of life. I am unfortunately aware of certain ways of interpreting the Koran which, in the hands of deplorable individuals, can lead to viewpoints which do. The only positive solutions I can come up with involve moderate Muslims assisting in supporting the vulnerable within their community to take a more peaceful path in life. This may well be happening, but I am not aware of it in the mainstream media. I can think of one or two high profile muslims who could do more though.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 18, 2021 13:05:50 GMT
Bollocks, frankly. There are Christians murdering and bombing in the name of their religion. There are Hindus murdering and bombing in the name of their religion. There are Buddhists murdering and bombing in the name of their religion. There are Jews murdering and bombing in the name of their religion. They are murdering people who ostensibly share their religion, but who differ on detail, as well as those who do not share their religion. Are there "aspects of the religion they preach", too? Or is religion being used as a simple excuse for the actions of individuals? With all due respect I do not know of any of the above religions which display a genuine threat to my loved ones or a secular way of life. I am unfortunately aware of certain ways of interpreting the Koran which, in the hands of deplorable individuals, can lead to viewpoints which do. The biggest current threat to the UK's way of life is most certainly coming from the far right. It's been playing out over five years so far, and is currently really starting to bite. It doesn't involve violence, though. Yet. Well, apart from the last murder of an MP, and death threats to others... The single largest violent threat to the UK's way of life through my half-century has most definitely not come from Islam. It's come from Northern Ireland. And if the far-right threat I mentioned above does escalate into widespread violence, it will be through reigniting that conflict, as is starting to be a serious risk. That says more about the "mainstream media" than anything else. Large swathes of it are hugely guilty of stoking the division that's brought us here.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2021 14:22:58 GMT
I'm generally sick and tired of people who blame life's problems on politicians. How many blame them for taking back handers, how many blame them for having to make tough decisions in difficult times. How many hate them for not agreeing with them on all issues as if the concept of democracy was a tricky mental concept.
Most politicians in this country are decent hard working people and some of them get attacked for being so.
The people who do it are normal crazy people and representatives of the society they come from.
A little education and kindness goes a long way compared to a long list of shouted "wants" and "  " concepts.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Oct 18, 2021 14:47:37 GMT
"Not all terrorists are Muslim"- No, but a sizeable number are because aspects of the religion they preach Bollocks, frankly. There are Christians murdering and bombing in the name of their religion. There are Hindus murdering and bombing in the name of their religion. There are Buddhists murdering and bombing in the name of their religion. There are Jews murdering and bombing in the name of their religion. They are murdering people who ostensibly share their religion, but who differ on detail, as well as those who do not share their religion. I have friends in the US some of whom are in the "right to bear arms mob" the attitude of them seems to be you will take my guns from my cold dead hands,and if they try there will be a revolt and we will shoot all the loony liberals. I find it very scary that they think they need anything up to 10 weapons in the house for protection.A. A former advisor to Yvette Cooper has said over the weekend she was receiving 50 death threats a week.
I heard that and the follow up, that she was having to make a victim impact statement to the police for each one saying how it had made her feel. I thought OMG what a waste of time surely she should only need to make such a statement if someone was being prosecuted
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 18, 2021 14:56:08 GMT
I'm generally sick and tired of people who blame life's problems on politicians. How many blame them for taking back handers, how many blame them for having to make tough decisions in difficult times. How many hate them for not agreeing with them on all issues as if the concept of democracy was a tricky mental concept.
Most politicians in this country are decent hard working people and some of them get attacked for being so. In more normal times, I'd agree wholeheartedly. With the current climate, that seems a little more questionable.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2021 15:20:28 GMT
No, there are no special times, either you believe in democracy or you don't. Rule of law or no rule of law. It isn't an optional, "I like it when the system works my way".
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" concepts.