michaelc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,895
Likes: 2,768
|
Post by michaelc on Dec 13, 2022 20:49:56 GMT
Maybe not related but the RCN seems to have become more militant since it became necessary to have a degree. Perhaps those with degrees are more money driven than the older nurses, or is it that they have student loans to repay Average Nurse around £35KTube Driver £55K Paramedic £33,500 That seems to depend on who you ask... "According to the government, the average basic pay for nurses is currently around £37,000. It was £35,600 until March 2022. It says basic pay for newly qualified nurses (band 5) is £27,055 having been £25,655 until March - an increase of 5.5%. It comes after NHS workers were given a 3% pay rise in 2021/22.
Intermediate pay for a newly-qualified nurse who has had two years of service is £29,180, with four years amounting to £32,934. Band six pay sees wages of between £33,706 and £40,588 depending on length of service. Band seven salaries vary from £41,659 to £47,672.
While the average UK salary is currently £31,772 a year (£611 a week)"
So they are far better paid than the average UK worker. At your next interaction with the Civil Service, bear in mind the salaries in the departments you are likely to be dealing with... "At DWP, for example, the median pay is £26,890, and at the Home Office it is £25,120".
Some interesting graphics at that link. Do you mean far better paid than the minimum paid UK worker? The average seems to be about 38K depending on the various factors involved in calculating it.
|
|
angrysaveruk
Member of DD Central
Back and to the left..
Posts: 1,016
Likes: 646
|
Post by angrysaveruk on Dec 13, 2022 20:53:25 GMT
The unfortunate reality is the UK is bankrupt and we have been living beyond our means for quite some time. The reality is the whole western world is going to have to accept a decline in living standards. People are just going to have to learn to live on fewer resources, the only thing striking is going to do is put peoples jobs in jepardy - the money isnt there. Postal strike is madness they are just striking themselves out of a job. Even the NHS if they start demanding large pay rises will ultimately do themselves out of a job, the days of the blank check NHS are probably numbered anyhow.
|
|
iRobot
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,657
Likes: 2,450
|
Post by iRobot on Dec 13, 2022 20:53:41 GMT
NHS Take Home Pay - NHS Band 5 Net Pay 2022/23" Band 5 is the entry Band for a person who has studied for 3 years to become a Nurse." The other Bands are linked at the bottom of the above page along with likely role descriptions and the Band's salary range - eg: a Band 6 can earn £40k* (I did search the site for mentions of 'matron' and/or 'sister' but could find no mention of them.) * - a useful note found: " For many working in the NHS additional income is earned by working unsocial hours including weekends, evenings, Bank Holidays and overnight. This is worked out for each hour worked."
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,625
Likes: 4,195
|
Post by agent69 on Dec 13, 2022 21:03:43 GMT
The RMT is nothing other than a self serving institution.
When covid first arrived the rail network was all but shut down. Mass redundancies were avoided by the government giving tens of thousands of pounds to rail workers via the furlough scheme.
Their memories are very short.
|
|
keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
Posts: 3,875
Likes: 2,313
|
Post by keitha on Dec 13, 2022 21:06:00 GMT
The RMT is nothing other than a self serving institution.
When covid first arrived the rail network was all but shut down. Mass redundancies were avoided by the government giving tens of thousands of pounds to rail workers via the furlough scheme.
Their memories are very short.
And whilst they were sat drawing the furlough money nurses were working extremely hard in many cases
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,625
Likes: 4,195
|
Post by agent69 on Dec 13, 2022 21:14:24 GMT
When covid first arrived the rail network was all but shut down. Mass redundancies were avoided by the government giving tens of thousands of pounds to rail workers via the furlough scheme.
Their memories are very short.
And whilst they were sat drawing the furlough money nurses were working extremely hard in many cases I sometimes wonder if Mick Lynch will end up being a modern day Arthur Scargill
|
|
|
Post by bernythedolt on Dec 13, 2022 21:22:38 GMT
That seems to depend on who you ask... "According to the government, the average basic pay for nurses is currently around £37,000. It was £35,600 until March 2022. It says basic pay for newly qualified nurses (band 5) is £27,055 having been £25,655 until March - an increase of 5.5%. It comes after NHS workers were given a 3% pay rise in 2021/22.
Intermediate pay for a newly-qualified nurse who has had two years of service is £29,180, with four years amounting to £32,934. Band six pay sees wages of between £33,706 and £40,588 depending on length of service. Band seven salaries vary from £41,659 to £47,672.
While the average UK salary is currently £31,772 a year (£611 a week)"
So they are far better paid than the average UK worker. At your next interaction with the Civil Service, bear in mind the salaries in the departments you are likely to be dealing with... "At DWP, for example, the median pay is £26,890, and at the Home Office it is £25,120".
Some interesting graphics at that link. Do you mean far better paid than the minimum paid UK worker? The average seems to be about 38K depending on the various factors involved in calculating it. No, nothing to do with minimum pay. To clarify, I meant the average nurse, on £37k, sounds considerably better off than the average UK worker on a median of (£31.7k last year) £33.3k this year. [Note there is some conflation of "average" and "median" above - the government sources quoted use both terms, making comparison trickier].
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,625
Likes: 4,195
|
Post by agent69 on Dec 13, 2022 21:36:36 GMT
When I was at school (admittedly some time ago) there were 3 types of average.
- mean - add all the numbers up and divide by the how many there were
- median - if you put all the numbers in a row in assending order the median is the one in the middle
- mode - the most common number in the set
There does appear to be a certain amount of picking and chosing depending on whet result you want.
|
|
mogish
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,019
Likes: 500
|
Strikes
Dec 13, 2022 21:38:55 GMT
via mobile
ozboy likes this
Post by mogish on Dec 13, 2022 21:38:55 GMT
Just watched a mick lynch vid on youtube at a meeting with politicians. As much as I dislike the man, he was running rings around them.
One question he was asked was after he made a comment that the wages rises didnt come from profits, he replied, they dont need to make a profit!
I can only reflect on scotrail, within 7 weeks of being put into Scottish government ownership they went on strike.
As someone said earlier, the workers need fair pay but they will eventually bleed the organisations dry until they go bust or service becomes so bad , people go private or switch elsewhere.
|
|
|
Post by bracknellboy on Dec 13, 2022 22:23:34 GMT
what on earth would make you think you are the only one ? The RMT is nothing other than a self serving institution. For decades they have demanded pay rises, guaranteed job protection, and virtually no changes to working practises. They have done so while typically while waving shrouds and claiming it is in the interests of public safety. Rather than the rank self interest that it actually is. I hope that the universal cost of living crisis combined with the job insecurity and changes that many people will have experienced in recent times will ensure they get very limited public sympathy. This could be the moment that meaningful changes to operating practises can get pushed through. Nurses I have a bit more sympathy for. They are working in a broken system. There are also large numbers of vacancies as I understand it: a free market indicator that the balance of renumeration vs vocation has gone out of kilter. I would have been less sympathetic in the past. Nonetheless, I suspect a lot of people will feel that given the mammoth NHS waiting list and a burgeoning national debt, money that is available may be better spent than simply increasing pay and fuelling tax requirements and inflation. Didn't they ask for 19% ? And no its not a symptom of a free market because the market isn't free. Only people who are allowed to work here and are suitably qualified can apply.As for unions I have no problem with them at all. Why shouldn't someone be allowed to stop work so long as their employer can sack them if not needed or wanted anymore. Perhaps you misunderstood my point. If not, then I'm not sure what point you are making. Quite obviously only those that are qualified (and eligible to work here) can apply. That doesn't mean its not a 'free market'. The point being that if there are large numbers of vacancies, then things are out of kilter because those that could be eligible are not rushing to fill the vacancies. whether that is in the form of people not currently eligible (through qualification) queuing up to train to get to get into the profession b) those that have left the profession for one reason or not being attracted to rejoin. The market is free, just that all free markets are still bound by various constraints. A free market is not a 'free for all' market.
|
|
|
Post by bracknellboy on Dec 13, 2022 22:26:59 GMT
And whilst they were sat drawing the furlough money nurses were working extremely hard in many cases I sometimes wonder if Mick Lynch will end up being a modern day Arthur Scargill "will end up being..." I think he is already proving his mettle. I was quite open that I shed not a single tear when Bob Crow was put into his box - and indeed would have happily opened up a bottle of sparkling - but my hope that it was the end of an era was quickly deflated.
|
|
|
Post by bracknellboy on Dec 13, 2022 22:28:09 GMT
The RMT is nothing other than a self serving institution.
When covid first arrived the rail network was all but shut down. Mass redundancies were avoided by the government giving tens of thousands of pounds to rail workers via the furlough scheme.
Their memories are very short.
another good point, well made.
|
|
|
Post by bracknellboy on Dec 13, 2022 23:00:10 GMT
Just watched a mick lynch vid on youtube at a meeting with politicians. As much as I dislike the man, he was running rings around them. One question he was asked was after he made a comment that the wages rises didnt come from profits, he replied, they dont need to make a profit! I can only reflect on scotrail, within 7 weeks of being put into Scottish government ownership they went on strike. As someone said earlier, the workers need fair pay but they will eventually bleed the organisations dry until they go bust or service becomes so bad , people go private or switch elsewhere. In one of my posts I was going to say - actually started to write but delete - that I wonder whether the only way our rail union situation was going to be sorted was to a Ronald Reagan/ATC number. The equivalent in this case being to let all the rail operators go bust and all the staff relinquished. And start from scratch with non-unionised labour and no strike clauses.
|
|
mrk
Posts: 807
Likes: 753
|
Post by mrk on Dec 13, 2022 23:09:50 GMT
On the nurses requests: Has nurses' pay kept up with inflation?Nurses' pay has not kept up with rising prices since 2010. They have had a real terms pay cut of more than 10%. It has also failed to keep up with average earnings, either in the private sector or the public sector, as the Institute for Fiscal Studies has confirmed.
|
|
michaelc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,895
Likes: 2,768
|
Post by michaelc on Dec 13, 2022 23:29:43 GMT
Didn't they ask for 19% ? And no its not a symptom of a free market because the market isn't free. Only people who are allowed to work here and are suitably qualified can apply.As for unions I have no problem with them at all. Why shouldn't someone be allowed to stop work so long as their employer can sack them if not needed or wanted anymore. Perhaps you misunderstood my point. If not, then I'm not sure what point you are making. Quite obviously only those that are qualified (and eligible to work here) can apply. That doesn't mean its not a 'free market'. The point being that if there are large numbers of vacancies, then things are out of kilter because those that could be eligible are not rushing to fill the vacancies. whether that is in the form of people not currently eligible (through qualification) queuing up to train to get to get into the profession b) those that have left the profession for one reason or not being attracted to rejoin. The market is free, just that all free markets are still bound by various constraints. A free market is not a 'free for all' market. Perhaps you misunderstood my point. The market for nurses in the UK is not really a fluid market as there is one very large source of demand (the NHS) and a relatively static set of those who could supply (nurses). Its not like plumbers, electricians, software engineers, hairdressers, solicitors, factory workers, etc etc where there are a large number of supply and demand actors.
|
|