SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Sept 30, 2016 6:41:32 GMT
I suggest limiting the smallest SM premium / discount increments to 0.1% (eg. 100.1%, 100.2%). It's inevitable that Bids and Offers will be undercut by other lenders on occasions, but when someone does so by 0.001% it's more than annoying. At least make them take a 0.1% hit!
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Post by ablrate on Sept 30, 2016 13:31:58 GMT
I suggest limiting the smallest SM premium / discount increments to 0.1% (eg. 100.1%, 100.2%). It's inevitable that Bids and Offers will be undercut by other lenders on occasions, but when someone does so by 0.001% it's more than annoying. At least make them take a 0.1% hit! Just added it to the dev system. Will let you know when done.
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james
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Post by james on Sept 30, 2016 13:42:48 GMT
Ummm... 0.1% is not a small step at times. I'll do all three digits trying to hit a yield target with only a small margin so I definitely don't want to be limited to just 0.1% and maybe have a 0.5% yield change on a loan that has relatively little time remaining before repayment. I don't have any problem at all dealing with three decimal place bidding wars, if someone doesn't like them they can just go 0.1% lower if they want to.
If you happen to have a loan that reaches end of term soon you might try to experiment with the yield difference produced by a 0.15 change in price. I don't currently have any that are close enough to illustrate how non-trivial the effect can be.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Sept 30, 2016 13:49:23 GMT
Ummm... 0.1% is not a small step at times. I'll do all three digits trying to hit a yield target with only a small margin so I definitely don't want to be limited to just 0.1% and maybe have a 0.5% yield change on a loan that has relatively little time remaining before repayment. I don't have any problem at all dealing with three decimal place bidding wars, if someone doesn't like them they can just go 0.1% lower if they want to. If you happen to have a loan that reaches end of term soon you might try to experiment with the yield difference produced by a 0.15 change in price. I don't currently have any that are close enough to illustrate how non-trivial the effect can be. Perhaps it's you then! If the Ablrate system can cope with adding the option of a further decimal place when a loan 6 months remaining, say, that's fine by me. However 0.1% increments are ample for the vast majority of SM trading (and traders, I suspect).
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Post by ablrate on Sept 30, 2016 15:05:35 GMT
Ummm... 0.1% is not a small step at times. I'll do all three digits trying to hit a yield target with only a small margin so I definitely don't want to be limited to just 0.1% and maybe have a 0.5% yield change on a loan that has relatively little time remaining before repayment. I don't have any problem at all dealing with three decimal place bidding wars, if someone doesn't like them they can just go 0.1% lower if they want to. If you happen to have a loan that reaches end of term soon you might try to experiment with the yield difference produced by a 0.15 change in price. I don't currently have any that are close enough to illustrate how non-trivial the effect can be. Perhaps it's you then! If the Ablrate system can cope with adding the option of a further decimal place when a loan 6 months remaining, say, that's fine by me. However 0.1% increments are ample for the vast majority of SM trading (and traders, I suspect). That's a good plan, thank you. What we are working through also is a restriction on negative yields, which can occur when a loan gets near the end... so the ideal solution would be for the system to recognize the remaining term when calculating any restrictions... Cheers Ablrate
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Sept 30, 2016 16:03:18 GMT
ablrate, another way to tackle this would be to reverse your SM pricing logic entirely and have Buyers and Sellers define the nominated yield at which they want to transact, the system then calculating and displaying the spot premium / discount that will be applied to deliver it. That approach is probably more intuitive for many lenders and would also fix the issue of "yield drift" when a loan part is listed for several weeks. (I'd then still propose requiring minimum yield increments of 0.1% !)
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Sept 30, 2016 16:44:39 GMT
ablrate , another way to tackle this would be to reverse your SM pricing logic entirely and have Buyers and Sellers define the nominated yield at which they want to transact, the system then calculating and displaying the spot premium / discount that will be applied to deliver it. That approach is probably more intuitive for many lenders and would also fix the issue of "yield drift" when a loan part is listed for several weeks. (I'd then still propose requiring minimum yield increments of 0.1% !) I'd agree with the first half of this... yield (or rate at least) is what I think of for loans, not the percentage premium. In terms of increments, I'd prefer 0.05 over 0.1 though. For the sake of transparency, my SM trading on Abl is probably minuscule though.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Sept 30, 2016 19:12:54 GMT
Good grief, how many folks buy enough on the SM to be worried by the odd 0.05% (one postage stamp per £1000 per year)?? For most purposes even 0.1% is overkill (and the BOE appears to agree with me so far).
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james
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Post by james on Oct 1, 2016 7:21:12 GMT
Perhaps it's you then! I've done it low single digit times and if I recall correctly it's been a few weeks since I last did it for underbidding reasons. Tweaking the yield is why I normally go to the second and third decimal place. A day or two or three's worth of keeping a hair above the yield I'm trying to offer. If the Ablrate system can cope with adding the option of a further decimal place when a loan 6 months remaining, say, that's fine by me. However 0.1% increments are ample for the vast majority of SM trading (and traders, I suspect). Your focus is really not on the main way I use the extra decimal places. Little reason to make people who want to offer say 9% offer 9.05% when they can offer 9.025% instead by tweaking the markup appropriately. Not a big difference and it will often vanish in the noise at many buy sizes but many of us here like to optimise
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james
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Post by james on Oct 1, 2016 7:31:18 GMT
ablrate , another way to tackle this would be to reverse your SM pricing logic entirely and have Buyers and Sellers define the nominated yield at which they want to transact, the system then calculating and displaying the spot premium / discount that will be applied to deliver it. That approach is probably more intuitive for many lenders and would also fix the issue of "yield drift" when a loan part is listed for several weeks. (I'd then still propose requiring minimum yield increments of 0.1% !) I think both yield and markup are useful targets, because both affect how humans judge things. Personally I'd usually set a target yield and want the system to maintain that yield for me, within a range of markups I can control. It's a pain that they change each day. A yield increment of 0.1% is high enough it is not insignificant, so it's too big. But there is a way: increments that for a say £1,000 deal would produce a change in payment of less than a tenth of a penny. Not for the deal size offered because I may not be the only one who does initial offers of a pound then tweaks the yield before offering the amount I really want to offer. Though that's in part because I can't just set the yield. A tenth of a penny because there aren't many 10k secondary market trades so it's assured to be under a penny of difference for almost all of them. However, human factors again mean that people like certain markup levels so it is worth offering the potential to target those rather than yield if desired. Good grief, how many folks buy enough on the SM to be worried by the odd 0.05% (one postage stamp per £1000 per year)?? For most purposes even 0.1% is overkill (and the BOE appears to agree with me so far). Still money and I really do go to the second and third decimal place when tweaking. But a threshold that's under a penny for a 1k deal isn't something that'd bother me.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Oct 6, 2016 7:38:14 GMT
PLEASE get rid of the crazy "10 loans per page" restriction for "Current Investments" (even the "Secondary Market" shows 15 per page). Having confused myself mightily, wondering why certain loans were disappearing whenever I re-sort my loans, I now realise that the 11th keeps dropping onto a second page.
If the existing coding requires a loans per page limit, please set it to 50 or 100 so that ALL loans are visible on 1 page. Thanks
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Post by ablrate on Oct 6, 2016 9:24:50 GMT
PLEASE get rid of the crazy "10 loans per page" restriction for "Current Investments" (even the "Secondary Market" shows 15 per page). Having confused myself mightily, wondering why certain loans were disappearing whenever I re-sort my loans, I now realise that the 11th keeps dropping onto a second page. If the existing coding requires a loans per page limit, please set it to 50 or 100 so that ALL loans are visible on 1 page. Thanks No problem. That is an easy win, will get that done. Regards Ablrate
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Oct 6, 2016 9:43:01 GMT
PLEASE get rid of the crazy "10 loans per page" restriction for "Current Investments" (even the "Secondary Market" shows 15 per page). Having confused myself mightily, wondering why certain loans were disappearing whenever I re-sort my loans, I now realise that the 11th keeps dropping onto a second page. If the existing coding requires a loans per page limit, please set it to 50 or 100 so that ALL loans are visible on 1 page. Thanks No problem. That is am easy win, will get that done. Regards Ablrate Great. Can you set the "Secondary Market" page to 50 or 100 as well then (ie. all on 1 page!). Thanks
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james
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Post by james on Oct 6, 2016 11:27:43 GMT
Yes. more per page is a very good thing. Much easier to scroll if the list size goes above the 25 or so per page at the usual font size being used. Though that would be three times as many if the "buy or sell loans" link in the rightmost column wasn't causing the cell tables to take three rows of text each instead of one. Changing that text to say "buy & sell" would cut that down to two rows per entry from the current three. Or maybe one if we're lucky.
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Post by ablrate on Oct 6, 2016 11:41:12 GMT
No problem. That is am easy win, will get that done. Regards Ablrate Great. Can you set the "Secondary Market" page to 50 or 100 as well then (ie. all on 1 page!). Thanks Done on the current investments - will get the SM done. We are going to give an option to 'show all' in future james - will take a look at cleaning that up for you. Ablrate
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