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Post by peerlessperil on Sept 27, 2017 6:41:33 GMT
Yes - I saw your post earlier today. Our IFA was online 16 minutes ago and hasn't responded, so I thought I'd top up the cynicism seeing that the thread had rolled onto a new page.... And who could resist an opportunity for some more fishing puns whilst we all wait with baited breath to hear from ablrate? The cynicism is fair enough, this is the internet!  I'm just trying to learn more about the industry, and anecdotal evidence is a good way to get your finger on the pulse. Never trust anybody online, or assume that they are who they say to be. Time tested advice  That being said, those who have answered have been really helpful, and I appreciate them taking the time to answer. IMHO the risk in regards to P2P is underplayed. So far I have only found one active individual on the Financial Service Register whose permissions could cover the activities of an IFA and could be called Steve Barry I very much doubt he appreciates stevebarryifa hijacking his identity, and his professional reputation. Admin can we ask this new member to amend his user name, or verify that he is the individual above?
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pom
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Post by pom on Sept 27, 2017 10:06:29 GMT
Hi all I'm an IFA, and am considering advising my clients on P2P. Therefore, I'm currently in the process of learning more about P2P lending, and am keen to hear war stories from people who have actually lost money in the process of investing. In particular: - How much money did you lose?
- What happened?
- Which Lender did you invest with?
- Was the provision fund useful? ie. would you have lost more if the lender did not have a provision fund?
Would also be keen to hear from people who lost money, and then were able to reclaim some of that back via debt collectors or collection agencies.
Is this a somewhat common occurrence or relatively rare? In your opinion, what is the chance that you will get less of the money back that you initially invested with a lender?
Thanks very much guys, keen to read your replies  Late to the party... and irrespective of other posts speculating as to the actual identity of the OP I'll just say this... Anyone who hasn't "lost" money in p2p simply hasn't been investing in it long enough, if you can't face "losses" don't do it. As to whether those losses will end up outweighing earnings in the long run, well it'll all depend on diversification, luck and the economy overall.
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dermot
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Post by dermot on Sept 27, 2017 11:30:36 GMT
I have crystalised losses of 0.14% after 18 months P2P investing, well diversified across 8 platforms - though I expect there will doubtless be some more - particularly in property loans.
My returns overall probably average around 9%, though rates have fallen a bit these past few months.
There are also some defaulted/late loans in black box platforms like Assetz and Bondmason, but I (hopefully) expect some portion of those to be recovered.
As to advice? Don't invest money you can't afford to lose in P2P, but apart from that, it can be fun - in an instructive kind of way.
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Post by easteregg on Sept 27, 2017 12:05:22 GMT
I've been investing with P2P since day one. I have experienced losses on the majority of platforms, but on all platforms interest exceeds losses. Lenders who are not sufficiently diversified can and do loose money. There are three platforms I can think of where an "average lender" will have lost money, but there will be some lenders that got out with a positive return.
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justme
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Post by justme on Sept 27, 2017 16:00:42 GMT
proplr who lost money on p2p would stop investing in it and would not be on this forum so trying to find out what percentage of investors suffered a loss by asking here does not make sense.
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Post by robberbaron on Sept 27, 2017 16:49:47 GMT
Note that the claim that "investors have never lost any money" can be very misleading. All a platform has to do to achieve this is to never resolve the very bad loans and let them linger in default forever (I think you all know who I'm referring to...).
Personally I prefer a platform with a history of resolving bad loans quickly to one that extend and pretend that nothing is wrong.
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Post by nellerdk on Sept 28, 2017 10:03:31 GMT
I will probably end up with losses on Bondora, even with a conservative risk profile  |
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ton27
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Post by ton27 on Sept 28, 2017 19:16:17 GMT
I have been an active investor with a six figure sum in P2Pfor more than 5 years.Overall I have a positive return but have made a £5k plus loss on one invoice discounting platforms. Currently I feel I have too much in property backed (non-trading) loans and know that a lot of VRs are inaccurate so am reducing my exposure.
Where to go after that is another question?
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fp
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Post by fp on Sept 28, 2017 20:18:55 GMT
This is quite interesting, my suggestion would be to advise steer people to invest in passive accounts as they are less time consuming, rather than the higher rate paying investments which require more time to asses, monitor and manage
But based on my first year of investing I made one crystallised loss of £36 in a passive account paying me around 5% (after cash drag) which reduced my return to nearer 4.65% on that particular chunk of money before tax.... On the other hand, the other 96% of my funds were in investments paying 10-14% return with zero losses.
I wouldn't really recommend a high level of P2P investment to anyone who doesn't understand the market, or have time to learn about it/ manage it.
I consider i've been lucky up to date
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archie
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Post by archie on Sept 29, 2017 6:12:56 GMT
I have been an active investor with a six figure sum in P2Pfor more than 5 years.Overall I have a positive return but have made a £5k plus loss on one invoice discounting platforms. Currently I feel I have too much in property backed (non-trading) loans and know that a lot of VRs are inaccurate so am reducing my exposure. Where to go after that is another question? Which invoice discounting platform? Archover seems quite good, I only joined recently.
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JamesFrance
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Port Grimaud 1974
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Post by JamesFrance on Sept 29, 2017 6:53:07 GMT
To me the great attraction of P2P is that you don't have to share your savings with IFAs, so I hope they don't become involved with it.
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bg
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Post by bg on Sept 29, 2017 15:54:15 GMT
To me the great attraction of P2P is that you don't have to share your savings with IFAs, so I hope they don't become involved with it. But surely you never have to share any investment income with any IFA unless you choose to?
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ton27
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Post by ton27 on Sept 29, 2017 19:54:52 GMT
I have been an active investor with a six figure sum in P2Pfor more than 5 years.Overall I have a positive return but have made a £5k plus loss on one invoice discounting platforms. Currently I feel I have too much in property backed (non-trading) loans and know that a lot of VRs are inaccurate so am reducing my exposure. Where to go after that is another question? Which invoice discounting platform? Archover seems quite good, I only joined recently. I haven't tried Archover but intend to and am currently happy (sort of) with MI.
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Sept 30, 2017 7:18:10 GMT
I've been investing with P2P since day one. I have experienced losses on the majority of platforms, but on all platforms interest exceeds losses. Lenders who are not sufficiently diversified can and do loose money. There are three platforms I can think of where an "average lender" will have lost money, but there will be some lenders that got out with a positive return. I've been with Zopa since September 2005. A fair trial as it includes the worst recession for 80 years. Unfortunately I had probs with a hard drive which means an accurate IRR is impossible but I would estimate it at about 6%+ (plus 1% as a founder member), pretax, post bad debt, with minimal volatility. I expect this to reduce over the next two or three years under their new lending regime. Over those 12 years I've seen Icelandic banks get spanked and the FTSE100 lose 40%, and building societies turned to dust, but Zopa kept chugging along, admittedly with a bad debt surge in 2008. if I could improve Zopa and RS, another favourite "fire and forget" account I would move them to asset backed loans. Assetzcapital does this but can't deliver diversification or an understandable PF that delivers in a reasonable timescale. if most (or average) hedge funds or absolute return funds could deliver Zopa returns over 12 years I'd bite their hands off. They haven't and they won't. I would imagine bonds and equity have been a better performer over those 12 years but with higher volatility.
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sl125
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Post by sl125 on Sept 30, 2017 10:23:16 GMT
Ah, Zopa....
I too started my P2P journey with Zopa several years ago. I shifted to Ratesetter and Funding Circle, and then watched as the P2P marketplace developed. What concerned me about the other entrants is that it was very difficult to determine which platform would last the course - it reminds me of the early days of the dot-com era, or even the early days of the railways, or the telephone, or the oil industry even... consolidation and the emergence of a few strong players will be the inevitable outcome, and on that note I can see why Funding Circle (my main platform for quite some time) has moved towards a value proposition for investors that is simple to operate for the many.
Anyway, I'm interested in the previous poster's view about the IRR on Zopa. Whilst in the early days over 6% was the rough net return after losses, I've found that it has stabilised to around 4%, certainly since Safeguard was introduced. So, with the move away from Safeguard announced recently but with little prospect of increased returns, I have very little left in Zopa.
BTW: The "IFA" chap has been awfully quiet?
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